Synergy IQ: 0:01

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Daniel Franco: 0:20

Hi there synergisers and welcome back to another episode of The creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco and today on the show, I had the absolute pleasure to sit down with AFL legend and one of the most modest and down to earth people that I've ever met. Mr. Shaun Burgoyne. Just a quick note, this podcast is brought to you by Synergy IQ, a leading management consulting firm in Australia who specialize in helping leaders in corporate and government organizations navigate their way through the overwhelming complexities of change, while enhancing their leadership capability. Check them out at Synergy iq.com.au. And also be sure to give this podcast a like and subscribe and leave us a review. It absolutely helps more than you know. So back to Shaun. Shaun's career in the AFL speaks for itself, like 407 games of professional football the fifth most ever in the history of the AFL and the first indigenous player to ever played 400 games. He's a four time premiership player winning three at Hawthorn football club and one at Port Adelaide Football Club. And since retiring at the end of 2021, he has transitioned into the media where he now finds himself on Channel Seven and Triple M Commentating the AFL matches as well as working in multiple positions at Port Adelaide football clubs such as indigenous liaison officer, football service officer and community ambassador. I'd like to point out that whilst we speak a lot about football in this podcast The chat is more about the inner mindset of a football player and the inner workings of an elite Football Club. Shaun was recruited in 2009 to the hawthorn Football Club and the club under the leadership of Alastair Clarkson build a dynasty winning four premierships over eight years. Everything we talk about is about the high performing culture that the club created the meaning of living and breathing the values within a football context and the absolute obsession with giving and receiving feedback. We also deep dive into Shaun's own mindset and how he grew from this pretty easygoing teenager who had just been drafted to becoming elite with his habits and behaviors. His application is mental state, how he managed through the ups and downs of injury, how he kept himself in the best possible position to play week in and week out. And finally, how he managed to be a husband and father of four while playing at the highest level for 20 plus years. So I've been lucky enough to get to know Shaun over the past six months as he's moved into the house right across the road from me, and we've shared a few gin and tonics in that time. But one thing that has struck out of me is that Shaun's ability to stay humble, modest and true to himself, even through the fame and glory of his career. It's very endearing and definitely the son of a true leader. It was an absolute pleasure doing this podcast with Shaun and I know you're going to love this chat as well. If you'd like to check out his profile, you can find that it's Shuan Burgoyne on LinkedIn or Instagram. And feel free to connect with me to where you can find me at Daniel Franco on LinkedIn, Instagram, or Facebook. We've also had some other amazing CEOs, leaders and experts on the creating synergy podcast and I'd welcome you to check them out on our website at Synergy iq.com.au. Or check us out at the creating synergy podcast on Spotify, Apple, and all the other podcast outlets and remember to like and subscribe, it would really help us out tremendously. Thanks in advance. Cheers, guys. So welcome back to the creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco and today I'm very excited to be sitting with the great man Shaun Burgoyne. Welcome to the show, Shaun.

Shaun Burgoyne: 4:01

Thanks, man. Yeah, happy to join and see what happens over the next bit of time. But thanks for having me.

Daniel Franco: 4:08

I just the kickoff is a bit of a funny one for me this podcast because you and I have known each other because we live right next door to each other. So it's It feels like we're just having another conversation, which is really great. So but this time? Yeah, exactly. No, actually, we should have gotten out a couple of couple of years, or a few gin and tonics while we're sitting here. But to start off, I mean, not a bad career for time premiership player three times with Hawthorne one with port 407 games the fifth most ever in AFL history first indigenous player to ever played over 400 Australian in 2006 full time indigenous All Stars team AFL Dream Team International Rules team and you captain at one year in 2007, which is awesome. Hawthorne life member, inaugural member of the indigenous players advisors Report which you then went on to chair in 2016. You lead your own company or like as well ACS Indigenous, which is a very purpose led company, CHANNEL SEVEN commentator, you're an author of your own autobiography, which is sitting right here in front of me that you that you signed. And I remember that goal, because it was the team that I'm sorry. No, that's all good. It's a good future AFL Hall of Famer as well, I think, beautiful husband to the beautiful Amy, a father to four amazing kids, Ky, Percy, Leni, and Nixie and then now you're my next door neighbor. What an amazing career.

Shaun Burgoyne: 5:40

There's a lot there. Yeah, there's a lot there. And to be honest, it's all gone in a blink of an eye. Yeah. And I've been I was on I was drafted end of 2001st year in the AFL system. 2001. And then it's gone blink of an eye and now I'm retired. You know, with four kids planning life after footy so. Yeah. I've definitely enjoyed my career. I

Daniel Franco: 5:56

brilliant. exceeded all my own personal expectations.

Shaun Burgoyne: 6:05

But it's fun to actually look back now and, and reminisce about my career.

Daniel Franco: 6:10

You want to start off with, you know, known around the traps is probably one of the most humble and most honest, and most modest players to play the football game. And as we're sitting here in your home, there's no sort of fanfare, there's no premiership medals hanging from the walls, there's no Guernsey sign guernseys or anything like that all over the house. In which, like, I guess backs up my statement, and so I want to kick off outside of you know, hardwork, grit and determination that you have put into your career and training. Do you believe that modesty and that humbleness has been a real contributor to your success?

Shaun Burgoyne: 6:50

I'll probably a little bit yeah, I was always brought up to be humble, respectful. You know, treat others the way you want to be treated. There's always someone out there doing it harder than you. And, you know, that's why I've lived my life, to be honest. And I hadn't really thought about too much. It's just values that were instilled in me as a kid growing up going through and I was always taught, I was probably lucky that when I first started playing footy, back home in Portland and family park, that my uncles were my coaches and you showed respect to them, because they're your elders. And they and they, they were able to teach footy the right way to play fair to play tough, fair, footy and enjoy the game and and respect your opponents. So I've had good people around me my whole life going through and that's not to say everything's smooth sailing, but when you're brought up with that, those type of morals and have good people who give you that type of advice as you go up, hopefully leads towards some successes definitely contributed.

Daniel Franco: 7:48

Absolutely. Do you to believe that? Well, sorry, in your, in your book you quoted, there's a picture of you and Amy in the book right now. I really love and, and it says, when you taste success, it's important to give back and make the make it about the people who help you get there. Yeah. And so is that something where did you learn that? From in its own right is like philosophy 101. Yeah, giving back and, and not, not getting not letting the ego get in the way and take over. Because you look at your career, we rattled off all those statistics before, it's pretty, pretty understanding if you did want to have a little bit of a head wobble about your career, right?

Shaun Burgoyne: 8:31

Now, it's extremely important to get back to the people who help you support you help you guide you to become the person to play you are. Because then they it's pretty, it's a bit of a selfish sport in terms of you've got to prepare, you've got to sacrifice can't go to birthday parties, you know, a lot of your friends go away during the year on holidays, you're playing footy. And, you know, my wife, she stopped her dreams to become a housewife, because we had, we've had four kids, and she had to, obviously, give birth, all the things that go through that four kids. So it's put a lot on hold to, you know, for me to be a successful football. And so there's no doubt I wouldn't have the Premiership's and the success side of my career without obviously Amy and the support of the kids and family and friends. So without those guys, you know, to keep you grounded and humble along the way, you wouldn't have success. I'm very comfortable with giving my medallions to my kids and my wife and they've all got one each. So I'm happy with that. But yeah, they're the key reasons why I was able to play footy for so long is the support they've given me and I think most players recognize that when they have some success. They've got a good family support behind them

Daniel Franco: 9:46

100% Will deep dive into the family stuff off the bat in regards to giving back what does that look like? Like you know, yes, you can give you medallions yeah and that away but I mean there is there is an element of sacrifice that you need. But people back in Lincoln day, the football club, do you go back there and give back and what does that look

Shaun Burgoyne: 10:06

You know, try to it's very hard to get back like? there. Obviously, I've been living in Melbourne for twelve years and then by Christmas time go back. I know every year we get our footy close, you know, and you get new sponsors, I always give my football clothes away to family members who support me. And they love wearing you know, the footy shorts, guernseys jumpers, you know, singlets short socks, wherever it is, boots, runners, give those those people who support me. And they wear those things with pride. So that spending time with them making time. You know, with my children, I miss some things throughout the year because of football, but try to get to all their sport, you know, all their school events show that I'm actually invested in what in what they're doing, and what's important to my children important to me. So there's a lot there because you got to do spend a bit of time trying to cater for everyone. But then it's kind of like, well, I want to be there for my children as well. Yeah. And then when I get back home, say hello to my cousins and my family who have grown up with and go back to the footy club and just be normal again back there at home where and show my kids where I grew up.

Daniel Franco: 11:13

Grew up. Yeah, because you guys get back to pulling around Christmas time.

Shaun Burgoyne: 11:17

Yeah, we didn't go back there. A lot of fishing out in the national parks. And it's quite hot. So we're outdoors the whole time. And the kids love it. Which because they enjoy it makes me want to go back there more

Daniel Franco: 11:29

still on the cards now. Because you got your family homes up there. And yeah, your your sister in law, Erin just recently sold a house and where gonna stay now?

Shaun Burgoyne: 11:37

Sure we'll find somewhere to stay. No, the kids love going back there running the sand hills and the beach, you know, all those things fishing. So we'll be there.

Daniel Franco: 11:47

Excellent. Looking back at your career, like you, you've talked, you're in you know, in retirement from AFL football, we've moved into channel seven roles, and you're doing obviously a lot with the community. But looking back at your career, looking back at the short end of 2001 to the Shawn who ended his his career ended in 2021 21 years later. Is there anything you would change as in that you look back on and when you do look back at at the two different people? You know, how much different

Shaun Burgoyne: 12:17

Yeah, it's a funny one. Because if you if you go back and change things, it could alter your, your path you're on things happen for a reason. You know, I had a number of injuries, you know, I change clubs. And then you know, the last Grand Finals, one grand finals, but if you change one thing, it may affect another. So even though even the games where we've lost and I've had multiple surgeries and multiple injuries, I actually look back now a bit of a smile, because it's part of the journey part of the process part of the learning curve. Yeah, I was immature. When I started, I matured, you know went from a very skinny kid to a kid who could and shy kid to kid he could hold his own. So I wouldn't change anything. Other people may think differently about their own careers. But it all happens for a purpose. And I'm not I'm not into luck, conspiracy, religious or anything like that. I just think it's just part of your everyone's individual journey. And my journey was yeah, one that went a bit longer than most players because most careers only go for about three to four years and mine in 21. Yeah, I can't complain too much.

Daniel Franco: 13:16

It's the scars that you that you were along the way that make the person that you are now. Yeah, exactly. Do you? Do you look back and think though, like back to 2001 that in that when you first started playing in the AFL Do you to now? Where do you think the most growth has gone into? Is it your

Shaun Burgoyne: 13:33

Probably everything. Yeah. professionalism? Yeah, hard work. You know, confidence. I own personal mindset? Is it your own? Like is it just you think when you come into a footy club, you're exposed to all obviously experienced this? It plays a huge part but what do these different things and footy clubs do as much as they can to you think was your biggest gap back then when you're first try to make you a better person. And then the player will follow. kicked off? Well got skills and talent and then you just work on the person and help them mature and you got walk into a footy club, you've got, you know, 40 pliers, you got CEOs, GMs or footy managers, they all try to help you so you get a lot of good advice and a lot of people Yeah, and for me, I was just growth in all areas. There was no area that was exponential growth. Yeah, there was no area that I think I needed to work on harder. It was everything, like confidence, professionalism, skill level, punctuality, everything was needed to be worked on to be honest and footy in the structure of a football club and the structure of our football program enabled me to grow in all these areas and you have meetings, you know, leadership meetings, team meetings, and it's okay to have an open mind. You know, everyone's here to try to help you. There's getting back is critical and feedback. We get we get fed feedback every single day, every single session on what we're doing. So yeah, And for me personally it was everything

Daniel Franco: 15:06

You like having no new for some time now and obviously it comes in it's shown in droves through the book as well that your loyal human being and loyalties is big and probably core to your values. When you when you did go through the process of changing club, how was that those process for you?

Shaun Burgoyne: 15:30

extremely hard to be honest. My dad played for Port magpies, my older brother played for port magpies it into the power. My wife Amy, who she has been involved with the port magpies footy club her entire life since I think the day she was born, her dad's former Legend of The Club

Daniel Franco: 15:49

Hall of Fame recently,

Shaun Burgoyne: 15:50

He's Hall of Fame Inductee he's the whole crew was with the magpies and Collingwood. But yeah, so Port magpies in the port power. We're very much in our family. Yeah. But I think everything come, there's always a comes a time where things change. And the decision to leave was a very hard one we just got Amy gave birth to our second son so we had Ky who was three percy, six months. We just bought our dream home here. And we're like we're getting ready to sell and for the next chapter of our lives play for you and retire. And then I said we're moving to Melbourne and China because that was a very difficult time not to mention a knee injury, potentially, yeah, I had surgery on my knee, not sure how that was gonna go, I was gonna play again. But I decided to well try something different. And it was going to be hard. And we decided to go down that path. And if I didn't go down that path that could have easily stayed here and retired and then drifted off into the post footy life. Yeah, we decided to try something new and different. And it was another adventure to be honest. That's why we looked at it

Daniel Franco: 16:55

was the lucky in the in the book you describe the leadership process of becoming Port snakes captain was a bit of a didn't go as well as you as what you would have liked it to have gone. And Mike Williams, the coach, your coach at port was pretty keen. And he's written about that in your book, pretty keen for you to become the captain? Was that the reason? Or was it a whole bunch of things that sort of led to the

Shaun Burgoyne: 17:24

There's a whole bunch of reasons. That was one of the reasons that was amongst the three or four different reasons. It just wasn't one set thing is that me injury, my older brother was retiring. And just other things team wasn't going to well, we'll fracturing as a group. And I've come to the just come to the realization that my time had come to the end at this club, you know, get on very well with Mark and when that decision was made, not for me not to be captain and it was dumb. Okay, it was like well, you know, there's three or four of us who wanted to be captain, they get in the path of how they selected Tom's captain, very good friend of mine drafted the same year, you know, come through the ranks together. And they're the main power as young junior through the power and then played. So I couldn't be more happy for him to be honest, because, you know, he had aspirations to be a captain as well as some other players. So once the decision was made, it was move on to the next thing and I don't know the kind of talk around it just didn't go away for a long time. It was always in the media always fans talking about it, which kind of rubbed me the wrong way because I still wanted to win footy. I still wanted to be a part of a great team. I want to Don to be really successful captain, but there's still negativity attached to it. So that kind of help. That kind of added to the situation of I think we need a new club that along with my brother retiring a knee surgery knee injury. Yeah. So it's a it's a whole ecosystem. Yeah, that's a whole group of there's a whole group of issues that I just wanted to try something new, to be honest. And if worst case scenario happened, we were gonna go to Melbourne live for three years and come back in three years turned into 12. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 19:09

Which would have been a strange, like, you wouldn't have thought that would be possible, given where your knee was at and the injuries and everything and potentially your age and all the above? Yeah. And your first setup for

Shaun Burgoyne: 19:21

well, we signed a three year deal or two year I think we're the one year kicker. And I spoke with with Clark owner spoke with the medical team at Hawthorne. And they basically said, like, the sky's the limit, you listen to what we say do what we say in terms of physical and the mental preparation and then the physical preparation with the leg. What's required after the surgery to get back playing. If you do or we tell you, there's opportunity to play past the three years and then we take it as it comes like after that. And I did exactly what they said and yeah, I have an open mind that it could be one year two years but we had a three year contract worked out to be 12. But a lot of that it's

Daniel Franco: 20:03

simply a lot more than what Lance Franklin. You know, if you think about when Lance Franklin went to Sydney, it was nine years and everyone's going, Oh, nine years, but you ended up being 12. And no one's

Shaun Burgoyne: 20:14

27. I left it. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Yeah. So but it's good management, from their behalf. Yeah. They would have manage me and my expectations and what what I wanted to get in my career, I was just all all about whatever team success at Hawthorne. So you know that that first year at Hawthorne was really tough, especially the first six months, rocking up on crutches. The club, I think gave way to first round draft picks, played some players, Rocky, so the expectations, expectations were high and a rock up on crutches and then boys a lot is even going to play and then I go through preseason. And then I do play around when the VFL because I just needed a bit more much conditioning before coming to the Air Force system. And I broke my jaw snapped it. And I was out for another four weeks until I put some two plates and eight screws in there. So now I was like, Oh, this guy can apply this injury prone. Yeah, but it was a blessing even the broken jaw. It was a blessing in disguise because he gave me another four weeks of running. Actually do get your fitness. I have a surgery on like the Monday by like the Wednesday I was back at the club running with a swollen face. I think it was to try to get as much running in before I could forget back to the full level. So

Daniel Franco: 21:29

the setbacks though, you know, you start a new club, you want to obviously make an impression. Get in meet people. And the best way to build a bond is by actually playing exactly football games, isn't it? Yeah,

Shaun Burgoyne: 21:42

well, I moved over. Amy stayed in Adelaide for the first four months, I think because she had to pick up that pick up the house, get everything ready. I was in Melbourne training every day, I moved in with Joe referred for those couple months. And I was building a bomb. So he was taking me out to have lunch with the players dinner with the players train show me how to drive around Melbourne or this is the shortcuts. So I kind of bonded with the players just because at us, it was pointless for me to move over with the kids before Christmas, get a place and then we'll come back to Adelaide for Christmas. And then we'll go back to too much back and forth. So the plan was here to stay in Adelaide, get things ready. I'll go and settle into the group come back at Christmas. And we all go over. And we did and it was really good. So I was able to form those bonds. And then the next step is playing games. And then I was able to do that for I think from about round five onwards.

Daniel Franco: 22:36

Brilliant. So you you're one of the lucky ones, I guess in in the sense that you You're fortunate actually only have two coaches. In this players, you look at some of those low rating teams and using Carlton as an example the amount of coaches that go through in the past, you know, 5 10 years, you have two over 20 years you no one at Port and, and one at Hawthorne, Mark Williams and Alastair Clarkson analysis was a big it was a big part of the reason why why you wanted to go over there as well. Yeah. Can you talk to me about the I guess the influence that these two men had on your career from both the personal growth and success? Yeah,

Shaun Burgoyne: 23:21

well yeah, it was very lucky to have to have more career and when I first met Chuck I was about 13 or 14 My older brother Peter draft report. And I used to go to the games and then go back to club rooms and then I moved in with and I met Mark roughly then and Mark knows Amy my wife played with her father and he used to babysit Amy as a baby got long way back and then I came on the scene when I'm you know 13 14 meets me and then I started living with Peter moved to the city and then he'd come and give me critique my games and come and watch I'd be playing for the port magpies and he'd come down the back of the pack and repinned me I'm not seeing you do this not seeing you do that as a coach

Daniel Franco: 24:02

give me so saw the talent in you from pretty early on

Shaun Burgoyne: 24:06

early on so he was very hard on me even when he was even my coach it feels like

Daniel Franco: 24:10

that give you belief in yourself or did that brilliant. So let's talk about Clarko for a minute. And the dynasty that he built, I mean, arguably one of the most successful teams in recent years, right? And probably in the history of AFL. And VFL, given the reign that you guys went for premiership, so I know you're only involved in three, but the force is 2008, which destroyed me because I'm a junk supporter. So you beat us in that in that point. But for premiers, over the 16 years, your book describes that the secret to success at Hawthorne was due to the culture and the values driven approach that that whole Thornwood was everything was based on really? Can you elaborate what it felt like as a player being part of a club that just had that was values base and just had this amazing culture, which which demanded high performance and respect really didn't?

Shaun Burgoyne: 26:15

Well, I think we Yeah, it did. And I think we acknowledged that when I first got into that, and we under achieved in 2011, we we lost in a prelim and final to Collingwood, when we were up leading into last quarter, and then 2012, we got into the grind, and we lost to Sydney, where we I think we were up, we squat, we wasted some chances in the first quarter and Sydney came back, and we're in a really tough game. And then then we kind of acknowledged that, what do we need to do to get better, and I think the values that we'd come up with the behaviors or standards that we'd set across the board, if we want to achieve success needs to start, you know, off the field before you get on the field. And we had players who were living and breathing, and you had really good leaders, a Haji and so on to lead from the front. And you've kind of live and breathe here, the behaviors you set, and then the behaviors and then the standard goes, you know, this will, what does that behaviors and you'll list them. And if we all individually live up to those behaviors to a certain standard, we will we will achieve success. Yeah. And it was quite, you know, it was quite exciting knowing, you know, we had the belief in each other that we were living and breathing, the trademarks and the values that we'd set. And the end result is game day, we play a role, and we win. But it starts well off the field. When we sit down in those group meetings and team meetings and preseason, and your list. What do we want to do? Like? Yeah, how do we do that? We'll start with behaviors. And you know.

Daniel Franco: 27:49

How did you hold yourselves accountable to those behaviors? Without like, were they part of every piece of language that you said, and every team meeting you always referred back to always refer back to?

Shaun Burgoyne: 27:58

A lot of the things we did yeah, when you talk, you speak the language, you use the language that we all want to we see on the wall, the trademark so those signs on the walls when you walk into footy club, they're not just signs on walls, you want to live and breathe it, breathe it. So the language that's on there, use that the way you speak about the game and your game plan your game style and and the coaches were heavily invested. So that a lot of our team reviews, game reviews were based on trademarks and the behaviors we want to see. Yeah. Well, that's on the wall. But this is here it is in the vision. Now look at these guys do this on the field. Yeah. So and you write your games as well based on the trademark. So your own personal rights are really in a coach's ratings, and then you watch a vision of the behaviors or how we want to be seen, and then kind of like just feeds and just snowballs like, and then the younger players are sitting on the outskirts want to be involved in it. So it becomes contagious. And that's your, your culture you're building.

Daniel Franco: 28:52

Yeah, that's brilliant. You've said to me before I remember, it's probably over a couple of genes. One, you said to me? I remember you said Yeah, and it stuck with me. Because the work that you know, I work obviously the creating synergies, the podcasts that I run, but synergy IQ is the company that I run as well, which is you know, we work with as a management consulting firm working with large corporate organizations, and really helping them through large scale change. We work with them on things like values and their strategy and their mission statements and all the above to through to, you know, change of large scale programs and whatnot. But one thing that you said to me which was we had the ability if I'm going to paraphrase this is not word for word, but we have in in the airforce system, we have the ability to be blunt, because everything is about the better of the betterment of the team. Yes, it was something along those lines, right. So it's this the the ability to give feedback that is so blunt, straight to the point, obviously, yes, you live to your values and Yes, you. You obviously say it with respect and yet but it's always this constructive criticism. It's instant feedback, isn't it? Yeah, in in the AFL system, it's just from game day you're getting feedback during the game training to it's constant feedback. And it to me is that is that what to be high performing? Is that feedback? Which makes you high performing? Is

Shaun Burgoyne: 30:15

that where you're, you're you seek feedback when you have a full team in the system, you need feedback to improve every day. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 30:23

But is that a trait not only in AFL? Is that a trait that you would think we'd be anyone, no matter what they are, if you're in business,

Shaun Burgoyne: 30:29

I'm still learning business. So I'll come back to

Daniel Franco: 30:34

that. But even just in life, if you think you're going to improve as a person in life, it's about receiving feedback,

Shaun Burgoyne: 30:39

you need to save receive at some some time, and not always going to be, you know, good feedback, you need to have some constructive feedback as well to say, Hey, can you improve and now if your system, you're in a constant, you're on a constant path of improving every day, you want to improve every session, you want to improve every game, you want to prove every preseason. So you, you do that by getting, you know, training, and then getting feedback, how to train how to play. Yeah, and we receive that. And I think, when it comes to game time, you need information straightaway to fix right now in game, whether it's a normal game, a final or grand final, you need feedback instantly, to fix what you're doing wrong, or to keep doing what you're doing right. And there's no, there's no time to talk nicely. And when you try to put the message across nicely as possible, sometimes it just needs to be said what you need to do a lot, you know, we need to win contested ball, put your head over the ball, or do whatever you need to do. And you need that in, in game real time feedback. And if you don't get it, you could end up losing so and I think when you give those feedbacks, we spoke about the preseason camps and all those things before meetings. That's where you build your bonds with your teammates. And you know, you grow tighter. So when someone you do talk to your teammates, game day, or before the game, or after the game is coming from a place of love and respect, because you built those bonds. Yeah. And then you check catch up chat afterwards. Oh, yeah. No worries. No hard feelings yet. No. Good, are you? You're right, because we needed to do this. We needed that while I wasn't doing this, because I wasn't playing my role. Yeah, we give him a pat on the back. Matt, you're awesome today, because you execute everything we asked of you.

Daniel Franco: 32:18

Is there? Is there a skill set in between? Because we know there is a skill set in both giving feedback and receiving it? Yeah. Do you think that everyone in the AFL system is just just has the ability to be able to receive constructive feedback? Or is there you got

Shaun Burgoyne: 32:35

to learn definitely learn how to give and receive and receive feedback. So we have, we've had sessions on that, how to give feedback, you know, these, you know, try to use your wording. This isn't a controlled environment. Yeah. When in team meeting rooms and stuff. So try to use these words, try to stay clear of this make eye contact, don't use laughter as a way to get your point across, because it comes across as a joke. So you get feed, you get, you kind of have little sessions where well they say you should speak to a player. And then this is how you receive the information. You should be doing this that way, you know, everything's for the betterment of you and betterment of the team. So we get information about how to do that. And some players need more than others. But yeah, it's it's just basically have a crack at it. And then you know, when you give you when you in those things, and you get feedback, actually, how did that session go? Yeah, so then yeah, like I said, Well, you're getting constant feedback, no matter what we're doing. Yeah. It's one of the reasons why you go to the club every day because you want to improve or leave the club every single day improved. From the time you first walked in.

Daniel Franco: 33:40

I love playing under people like Alastair Clarkson and Luke Hodge and Sam Mitchell. And some of you know, Jordan referred and Lance Franklin and some of these amazing sort of players that you've played with. Was there anything from a feedback point of view? Do they ever? Did they ever say anything that? Or did they ever say anything that sort of you went, Oh, hang on, there's something in that I need to improve?

Shaun Burgoyne: 34:03

I did. Definitely. Sometimes it hurts you when people say things that you're not doing well, or you're letting the team down in one aspect of the game. But that only stings for five seconds, four seconds, and you move on? Yeah. All right. So I like to take everything on board. Or you can talk through things and you can that's why you have discussion, whatnot. I actually believe that's wrong.

Daniel Franco: 34:24

Yeah. Correct. I think that's the point is if you have a healthy discussion, yeah. Correct. Yeah. You know, look, someone like Luke Hodge comes to you and says, I surely you know, pull your head in, in this space. Yeah. Well, that's from your perception. I'm not really sure. Eddie, did you ever sort of oh, we

Shaun Burgoyne: 34:38

had lots of conversations like as a as a group in small groups, or I had breakaway groups where you talk in smaller and smaller groups with some players feel a bit more comfortable and split, split the groups up older and younger. So it's not just all your same age group in one group, but there was always discussions on when players didn't agree with what each other said and it's healthy discussion and then you Yo as in, bring it in from the grip. Ah, now we had a disagreement over here, these, this guy thought that that guy thought that it actually creates to the actual, the environment that you could try to create where players feel valued when they speak and like I said, provided put across in the right way. It's all good. And players have lots of discussions. And sometimes they get heated to you because it's coming from a place of passion. And players want to improve. And in the day, we'll all go out and have a coffee afterwards. Or we'll go for a beer after a game when we can and we mingle and hang out. So it's good. It's very, I think it just adds to the whole environment to be honest, that live as you said, because if you're not going to talk about things that are going to make you improve, well,

Daniel Franco: 35:49

then you know, what, what are you there for? Exactly. Anyway, I think Mark Evans said it best and it isn't, you know, we're here to win premierships mate. We're not here to win this next game.

Shaun Burgoyne: 35:57

Yeah, Exactly. Right, which is

Daniel Franco: 36:01

referring to having read the book,

Shaun Burgoyne: 36:02

when I broke my jaw. Yes. Correct. Yeah, when I want to make an impact straightaway. And he was like, no, no, I might just slow down, you're here for the long haul here to win premiership start to win the first one or two games of the year. We Excel, we have a long term plan, which definitely helps. I love

Daniel Franco: 36:19

that. And I want to I want to bring this back to business somewhat given the audience of the podcast, but in regards to like, leadership is like poor leadership is rife within the corporate world at the moment is there's a lot of there's a lot of a lot of managers in the world who are sort of demanding outcomes and defining, you know, these outputs so that, you know, times can be met, financials can be met, all the above, KPIs can be met, and not really focusing in on on their leadership qualities and the ability to bring people along for the ride. This might sound like a pretty bizarre question, but in your opinion, could you have been successful at Autozone? Or at port? If you didn't have great leadership behind you?

Shaun Burgoyne: 37:10

No, I don't think you can good leadership. I think it starts from the top and works its way down. When you got good leaders who, you know, lead in the right way you follow? You follow their, their path, and I was very lucky. Clark, I was probably a great example of it. He's the the head figure, the leader, and his leadership, you know, he was, you know, obviously credited Denniston regarded one of the best coaches and coach the game. And it's interesting to see like, he was never one to think, Well, I'm above anything. So he would give the assistant coaches who served under Aleister, a lot of control a lot of a lot of power to run training, to run meetings to try new things with his blessing and preseason training was, you know, in preseason training was a great learning because you see this system coaches, taking trainings, taking meetings, and he's happy to watch that and delegate the leadership abilities to those guys. And then that flows down to the captain who, you know, the time Haji was a warrior leader, but he delegated all the time to the other leaders who around him and younger players. So that they'll never the ones to think I can do this all myself. Yeah, they involved everyone they delegated. And then you kind of create, you know, an environment where you want success. The leaders are creating an environment where they can lead and we want success, but you also say sustained success as well. And when you have the leaders leading in the right way, and becoming involved in delegating, and being you know, not not afraid of letting others help, it definitely helps.

Daniel Franco: 38:50

I think like it, it's so it's really nice to hear actually, because, like business and sport worlds to intertwine so beautifully, right, because the way Alastair Clarkson is managing a football club or leading a football team, I should say, is really similar to the way a CEO, for example, would later Later business CEO would lead a business and he or she, or they would then be able to give that I guess, leadership or have those leadership expectations on their on the general managers or the other senior senior levels to run their departments and whatnot. And that sounds like that's exactly what Clark I would run the club.

Shaun Burgoyne: 39:35

Well, he's managing, he's managing people to be honest. Managing the coaches. Yeah. And the coaches are managing 45 players. Yeah, but he sets the Ultimate Direction does he does he said, Yeah, this is the path. This is how I see us playing. This is our today I want to get into the path and yeah, we're the boss man. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 39:51

Outside of outside of premierships, like is there another purpose for football club.

Shaun Burgoyne: 39:57

There's always footy clubs now involved. Yeah. massively over a number of years, obviously you're there to win win premierships as a group but you also can help make change in the community. Yeah, it's the number one sport in Australia, the platform we have as a as a industry but then platform players have their own personal platforms to help create change and, you know, to help better lives through footy clubs, have all these different programs, community programs, where they're out there, you know, trying to make grassroots footy better, but also trying to improve lives and improve education. So yeah, the footy clubs have evolved massively. So if you want to improve your pliers, you want players to come in and lead when they when they come in at some stage and then lead better people for it as

Daniel Franco: 40:43

well. Yeah, 100%. Scenario time is your question. So you're, you're a veteran who's played 400 games, not many of you, there's only five in total. And the new kid walks in right new 18 year old kid full of arrogance, writes himself is potentially the next best thing you know, if you know that went number one in drain the draft or whatever it might be top 10 in the draft, walks around a bit of an ego there thinks this shit doesn't stink. How does Shaun Burgoyne and Luke Hodge? How do you guys manage that VIP kid,

Shaun Burgoyne: 41:19

it happens every year, you got to make less changes. So five players retitled listed or whatever, and you get five new ones in so happens every year and you get not all players are the same. So I think it'd be very boring if every player came in the door was the same as a robot. Yeah, yeah, it was a robot. So I like the fact that we get different players in or different people in there or different from different parts of Australia from different walks of life, and they come in and genuinely, you see how they go, like you let him fit in. It's very daunting for young kids to come to a footy club as an 18 year old, and you have got all these, you know, stars around them, or, you know, people have idolized. Yeah, so you say you kind of like, you could feel for them a bit. And some of them move states live with their parents into a new state new house home, two days after they were drafted. So, you know, there's a lot of change on these kids. And you don't want to crush any form, any form of confidence or any self belief they have. So you let them go. Yeah, and you chat with them, let's go for dinner like boys or not normally go for dinner with them lunch with them, they said, Lynn, they have an induction process with the leadership group or you know, the well being team will induct them into the club. And then you kind of just go from there. And then these are the these are the babes behaviors we want to see, this is what we don't want

Daniel Franco: 42:38

to see color from day one. These are the behaviors we expect.

Shaun Burgoyne: 42:42

Yeah, the induction process and induction process is a really important process. And like this is what we stand for these are behaviors. And very rarely do you get a kid who comes in as against that and goes the opposite way they come in, and they are no I can only live and breathe that to you I want success, or whatever 15 year career, I want to have the respect of my teammates, and I just normally just gel in straightaway, because they come in and they just want to be a part of the system, they want to play AFL. And there's they're generally, not generally most of them are very smart kids as well. So that normally, just the process at clubs have set up, I can only speak about the club that was involved.

Daniel Franco: 43:18

It's an important point of how important induction is right. And when you say the same thing in the business and corporate world, when someone is coming into a business, or they're coming to a football club or whatever, whatever organization, it might be the idea of setting someone up from success from the moment they walk in, by setting expectations as well as setting behaviors, creating those boundaries, creating those clear and we'll clear visions of what we're actually trying to achieve, has to be from the first from day one, you know, they're not individual

Shaun Burgoyne: 43:50

goals, that's a group this, this is the club that we've got, this is what we expect of our players and their staff. And you'll fit in perfectly with your footballing talent and your hard work and you on your own little pathway. But this is what we want as a group. And they're generally very enjoyed the gold, maybe COVID prevented it in the last bit of time. But normally they go away for a day or two, spend the night you know, have dinner, play some golf or buy some go for us, you know, swim down the beach, wherever it is, if it's warm, and they have the induction process. And normally that's involved with the senior players as well giving that to the younger players.

Daniel Franco: 44:29

Hey, going back to that young kid with arrogance, right, and let's say maybe it's not week one, maybe it's year two or year three where there's a bit of ego about there's a bit of arrogance Yeah. What does the leadership team do to give feedback in that space?

Shaun Burgoyne: 44:44

You get feedback all the time.

Daniel Franco: 44:46

So does it not get to that point?

Shaun Burgoyne: 44:50

It shouldn't get to that point because you always you're always giving feedback and was chatting with other coaches. Yeah, so if it does, you know me generally have a meaning to be honest And so generally Yeah, you just if something was to happen like that, that generally you have a meeting with the leadership group player in say, will, will these expectations that you're you're not you're not living up to these the behaviors, we want expectations. And then you talk through that. And then you say, Well, you know, we want to see better from you.

Daniel Franco: 45:20

Yeah, I think it's the idea of not letting it get to that stage. Yeah, exactly. Making sure. You know, I think one thing we spoke about last time as well, like, while we're on this subject is fact to actually play AFL. Like if we, if we think about Australian rules football, yes, it's only in Australia. But you're the top 500 players in the world, right? Like there's no one better in the world in the universe for that effect. Yeah, that can play AFL better than you. Right. So to be selected, it's an amazing achievement. And you are deemed as elite. When you walk into this football club, and you're inducted, you have this great onboarding process, the basic behaviors and expectations are set. You have this medical team behind you, you have this coaching team behind you, you have this leadership team by if the club behind you everyone wants you to succeed, yeah, right. Like it's, it's an amazing environment to walk into where success breeds success, and everyone has this desire that you could be and reach the absolute potential. That you know, that's why we drafted you into this club. That's why we hired you into this organization, so to speak. How does add is it how do people not succeed then in that world, I think, because it just seems the perfect environment. You see, so many football players who fall away, who never get through the system can never break into the, you know, into the main team? Yeah. Why is that? Like,

Shaun Burgoyne: 46:51

oh, this is probably a really, to be honest, some are good enough to get drafted and just aren't good enough to play AFL.

Daniel Franco: 47:00

Yeah, that's, that's the that's the that's the gap, there's a

Shaun Burgoyne: 47:03

gap there straightaway. There's a few fall in that bracket. So some players come in, and then they don't develop whether they have you know, injuries and then their body can't get their body, right. And then some players then fall away mentally as well. The dedication, there's a whole range of things that can go wrong, go wrong. To get a list in the first place is very lucky. And you've you've achieved success, too. You didn't get on the list. And playing a game was actually one game is you know, success being I think, is being successful in your career. But yeah, that's very hard. The probably the thing is when you You'll find out when you speak to players you get drafted, it's actually the easy part of getting drafted for a player like it's still hard to get drafted. In terms of the process of being drafted, playing sustained career, whatever. That process being drafted the easiest part because then you come onto a list and you'll go from a relatively good players a junior, then you come on to senior IFA list, and then you're down the bottom, so to speak, because you normally skinnier Yeah, you know, like there's other players in front of you, all those different areas, and you've got to work hard, I want you to get on the list to actually get into get into the team and stay in the team, you got to work harder at the NFL level to get in. So, you know, if you're drafted as a key back, you know, normally, you know, they're the big guys, you got to put on normally five teams, for you consider the play

Daniel Franco: 48:35

strong enough to hold yourself to come up against Tom or

Shaun Burgoyne: 48:39

Tom Watkins Lynch, those guys are huge. You know, you got to put on weight. So there's this, there's a lot of things.

Daniel Franco: 48:48

We talked about mental fitness in that space. There's obviously a lot of time and effort that goes into the maintaining of players and their mental fitness. If you're, if you're good enough to get drafted, then obviously you've trained hard enough to get to that point. Where does the mental fitness fall away? Is it just the

Shaun Burgoyne: 49:10

Yeah, it's hard. I'm not sure to be honest. Because I didn't fall away. Yeah, no, yeah, I was able to stay

Daniel Franco: 49:18

with me to answer that question. And

Shaun Burgoyne: 49:22

it's hard to say like, We have clubs, psychologists at the club, and there's also a blaze of access to psychologists outside of the club rooms to talk about these things or to talk about their mental mental health or they, you know, I'm talking about a school because I don't really know much about what they speak about. Because I've never had any mental health problems, but when they're on their own deck, I would I speak to actually the sport sports psychologist about it, you know, setting achievable goals. You know, that's where I'd sit with a psychologist in the past, because we always had one at Hawthorne. He was always there and you'll always have a chance to have a coffee actually going and says in the cafe? How are you going? Are you know, fine, you know? I want to,

Daniel Franco: 50:07

you know what I want to choose what I want to achieve

Shaun Burgoyne: 50:09

in the next five weeks? Yeah, no worries. Like, do you think you're putting yourself under too much pressure? I either too, actually too easy for you. Yeah. But I became good friends with them. As a psychologist that was just a chat. It was like talking to a friend. And yeah, and they're there all the time. So I'm not too sure what apply starts to fall away where they talk about, you know, how they go and those things. And if I ever did see a player who was struggling, like, you know, how are you going, I'm failing and trying hard to come to training or things like that. Go talk to this guy talk to you know, there was the help. There we go. You know, the psychologists are, well, they can help you I can't help you know, that's they never tried to actually know point me giving you advice. Yeah, no point of me giving you advice, because I'm talking out of school. And I'd rather get have them talked with the expert, and then help them but yeah, it's a tricky one for some players.

Daniel Franco: 51:02

Do you have a look? You know, we we just now said, to get drafted hard enough to play your first games hard enough to play a couple of seasons or hard enough, but then to play 400 games? Do you ever look back at your career and go like, from a percentage wise, I am in the top point 00 1% to have ever played this many? Yeah, like that. It's just mind boggling. Your achievements. Yeah, there's

Shaun Burgoyne: 51:27

all of this kind of just worked out that way. Yeah. Like I didn't get I always thought I was good enough to get drafted. Yeah. Because I thought I was good. I thought I was just good enough to get drafted, then you get on to the list. And they'll didn't play a game in my first year because I'd osteitis pubis. Yeah, so I did have a month or two of training and groins got sore had some scans. And like, Yeah, they're pretty bad. Might you out for the whole year. Yeah. Wow. So then, you know, my credit, my credit could have ended before it started. So you potentially

Daniel Franco: 51:56

could have played more games? First year?

Shaun Burgoyne: 52:00

Yeah. Yeah, so I could have bought in like, you know, the coach couldn't call me into the answer, mate. You're just not seeing enough you're injured. Yeah. And delisted me after the first year. And he actually did do that. He called me in another player in end of our first year. And I'd asked the artist and he said, if you're injured again, this year, I'm going to Delicia. So give me a rocket up, you know, I'm straight away, but then it's just kind of just, I just want to play one game next year, because Chuck has said he's going to do lists me, I want to play two games. Oh, you know, and then I just kind of just snowballed, and I didn't, there was never any goal of all of the play fighting games or anything like that. It just worked out that way.

Daniel Franco: 52:40

Yeah, brilliant. So I mean, to play 400 is an achievement. And, and to get to that many games, you have to prepare well, right. So I'd love to I'd love to deep dive into into your preparation and you've had a couple of you know, sort of significant injuries with your name, your ankle and all the above. But is it true that you had honey sandwiches before every game is? Is that is that elite preparation? Yeah.

Shaun Burgoyne: 53:16

I think as I got older, I kind of started going a bit are worse. I've become a bit obsessive as I got older, yeah, the way things needed to be done and the way I wanted to get things done and the way I wanted to prepare and I want to hide to do all that in and around for kids who are getting sick every now and again. Who had you know my wife and had things going on so the honey sandwich worked its way in stuck and then like it was a part of my preparation and I couldn't do other things because of the kids or whatever. Yeah, honey sandwich was something that I became very obsessive about what

Daniel Franco: 53:52

what is some of the other things that were a non negotiable as preparation for every year or every training or whatever it might be. What was something that you did religiously before you ever put the boots on?

Shaun Burgoyne: 54:07

my whole entire mindset I used to prepare for the game on a Monday I used to wake up and I used to do is to prepare for things I knew I had to do certain things at a certain time throughout the week to tick the box in my head mentally to prepare so one day saying the game Saturday on Monday you were sad Monday I'd start preparing mentally. What I need to do, I'd always have go to bed on a Sunday night picturing what the next week looks like terms of Monday Tuesday Wednesday, Thursday and then in then mentally or break down the Monday break into Tuesday or by the Wednesday the day off I know what I'm doing but I need to tick these boxes on Monday go in be a part of the group up I need a tick these boxes for myself

Daniel Franco: 54:48

from a from a health and body point of view or it's just in front of everything

Shaun Burgoyne: 54:52

everything so from a health from a from a body point of view, check in with the doc check in with the physio get this rub get that rub stretch this muscle get in the pool, do this get in the icebox do that, go back and stretch this muscle, you know, go home, you know, try to eat meat at the start of the week and try to eat like, not chicken or stir fries at the end of the week like so I already knew what I was going to eat and how I was going to buy, it became a little bit obsessive with that stuff in my shot a lot more shoulders in rehab, and then checking in with I know, I know how to check in with the strength and conditioning coach this time, this time this time. And I know when my body should be what it feels like, if it didn't feel right at this stage, what do I have to do to get it feeling this right? So I kind of obsessed about that stuff a little. And it just kind of added to my preparation to be honest. And if training moved, while I'm going straight into the fitness coach, why are we moving training, I can't tick these boxes. And then the East allow me sometimes just to start the club just to prepare, because they'll go off site to train and I was like, I don't want your site to train, I need to train here to do these things. And then the boys would actually in a group environment, it's not really good to do that. But they're kind of in that area. When we were having success. The boys knew that that's mentally I needed to do to get myself ready. And I had to trust to actually have the fitness coach will you know, Sean's gonna do it. He's not just doing it just so as soon as we leave, he's gonna go home and sit on the couch. So it was it was a bit of hygiene, the boys and roughy and all those guys, they always like give it to me every now and again. I mean, when you wouldn't do this, because you were I to prepare.

Daniel Franco: 56:31

I think just to have the awareness in your in yourself, right? Yeah, is pretty critical for me to get up and be the best that I can be to do this or go through this process to have that awareness is unbelievable. Yeah. So

Shaun Burgoyne: 56:45

well, they're just kind of developed and as and I saw results when I started doing it. So I'm kind of going on my path and I'm doing these things I'm getting good results getting good results. So I was like oh, okay, nice and then kind of got to polyrhythm Alas, I think my last seven years I was like well stop eating chocolate lollies because I was like well, let's try sacrifice something to you know, to, you know, to play keep playing footy. I'll try sacrifice this to to keep playing so I didn't eat chocolate or any form of lollies for my last probably six or seven years I've applied Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 57:24

Even in offseason during the offseason. Wow. So alcohol never came into this No.

Shaun Burgoyne: 57:36

Well, they're still trying to give it up. Got to a point was like now I've come one year we'll try to go two years. But as you speak, so

Daniel Franco: 57:45

you mentioned on chocolate before we

Shaun Burgoyne: 57:49

started overtired those good to me. But the other thing is like, if I'm not gonna obsess about my career, well, no one else is just fine. So that's what I've got. I love that attitude. That's where I kind of got into my headspace.

Daniel Franco: 58:02

How do you manage expectations that everyone else has on you? Like, you know, you have a family for kids is expectation sometimes. And like, I get it, if no one else is going to do it, then you know, you've only got yourself to blame, right? But sometimes you come home after a long day. It's just easier to eat whatever the kids are eating or whatever is left over. And yeah, you're tired. Could you not afford that to happen?

Shaun Burgoyne: 58:27

Now? Well, there's we always had this thing in Hawthorne, as well seen and unseen. You know, we can see you doing stuff at the club, when they can see but what's the unseen stuff you're doing? doing to improve yourself in your way and always, you know, always live a pretty, you know, relaxed lifestyle but I never went overboard or anything. So things I did away from the footy club was instilled in preparing by the system one of those things.

Daniel Franco: 58:58

Does it become habitual, after a while, like you just these habits that you build up over time that the more and more you do it, the more and more does become habit, the easier it becomes?

Shaun Burgoyne: 59:09

Well, it just it's just very tained to be honest. And then I Yeah, and then I try to work in like I said before, I mean, the kids, you know, their schedules in as well. You know, their school sport and all those things and I still went along but yeah, if the preparation was like, I've got to go watch my son play footy. Before my game was just taking deck chair, sort of standing up for an hour and a half and getting rocking up to my game with sore feet and so low back because I'm sitting here we're just taking a deck chair and watching you know, still prepare while you're doing other things. You can still prepare for elite footy while you got your wife and kids. Yeah, to do things with them.

Daniel Franco: 59:42

We are a testament to that. Was there anyone that just stood out above the rest from a training point of view or time and effort into themselves and

Shaun Burgoyne: 59:49

Buddy, I think I think everyone I think when you come in you see the young kids coming they're forming their good habits. They're forming their routines and they're forming, you know, what their preparation looks like and then other applauses in the middle of it, and some players have stuck in their ways and ELLs in the end one rules, you know, I had my routine set, but it depends on your body shape, you know, the position you play, you know, are you a good runner? Like an elite runner? Are you bad runner? And everyone's preparing for their own? Within our whole program of everything. Everyone's preparing their own way. Yeah. And it's actually good to see it's refreshing to, to watch our different people go about. Sometimes if someone's doing something really well, because the boys watch each other really closely at the club really, really nicely give each other if someone's doing something, well, you might say, Oh, what are you doing that for? Why do you see results? And I show my tribe,

Daniel Franco: 1:00:41

so learn from others? Did you ever see anyone that like, was elite in everything that they did, from training to meal prep, to their lifestyle, to the way they manage the kids or whatever it might be elite in everything that I did, but just couldn't get the performances on the field? And I guess, I guess my question there is angered at the point of view from, like, there's talent, and then there's hard work. And then there's a combination of talent and hard work, right. And can can hard work get you there alone.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:01:13

Now, we can't get you there alone. I'm not too sure about if I've seen a player do anything not succeed. I'm not sure. Nothing's coming to mind. But Hardwork doesn't get everything done. You can work. I think you also got to rely on others trust others. Or I know myself personally, I thought, when I came to Hawthorne, I knew I just couldn't get it done by myself. Because I want that I needed to trust the physio. Yeah, he was going to work on my body daily in the right spots. To get me over the line on the medical staff, the doctors, were gonna give me the right advice. Koco had my best interest in, in getting the whole thing was going to play me in the right positions to play. Well. You know, you got to trust and have faith in others to do their job as well. So hard work is one yes, but there's a whole heap of things that you need to know

Daniel Franco: 1:02:06

what's an ecosystem isn't it? You can perform purely because of the environment that

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:02:11

you exactly why would a footy club you can't you can't have success or you can't do what you want to do by yourself. You've got to you need the help of others. And you need to rely on others to help you get you over the line. And that's why you play a team sport as well. If not go plan individual sport. Which is one of the reason why I love footy is you can rely on others. Yeah. And

Daniel Franco: 1:02:31

when even when you look at individual sports, let's we'll use tennis or golf. Yeah, I still got trainers, they still got people who get physios like yeah, that's still there's still a team in the background. There is still a team in the background. Yes. So Roger Federer didn't do it by himself and his team, exactly

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:02:48

what they are the ones who help him get on the court. And then he his dedication training standards, what he's done, and then he's natural talent, on top of all the things he's already doing, helps him to succeed. Absolutely.

Daniel Franco: 1:03:02

Want to talk to you about the pressure of AFL on both a young person and just throughout your career? No doubt that you know, the world is watching your every move, especially as you move up in the ranks and you're obviously a high profile player. And there's a lot going on in the world and the new like in the news at the moment with you know, Jordan the going Yeah, and whatnot. Again, a bit of trouble. How did you well, how do you perceive this constant pressure on air for footballers? And do you think it's fair?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:03:34

Well, the pressure has been going up at the moment

Daniel Franco: 1:03:39

they almost

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:03:39

always social media almost more fully shows that they're

Daniel Franco: 1:03:43

correct. And you almost sit there and you go, like I get it, you're getting paid? You know? If you're lucky enough you're getting paid hundreds of 1000s of million dollars a year right depending on how good you are. But sometimes you sit there and go the amount of pressure that's on on these people.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:03:59

Yeah, there's a lot I guess. I guess personally, I never really listened to the the pressure or that was out there. There was a lot always when I first went to Hawthorne and there was a lot of commentary especially in Melbourne Abell Hawthorne gave away too much for me and all these but for myself personally, I use a little bit of as motivation but I never paid too much respect to it at all. Because if for me personally, if I ever thought anything, I'd go say Koco what's wrong with me? Or do you think I need to do Yeah, or Haji You got any feedback for me

Daniel Franco: 1:04:37

so you go straight to the people who actually use opinions actually matter whose manner

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:04:41

exactly right but not to some random Why isn't different stay on a keyboard or a journalist who's getting paid to give his opinion or you

Daniel Franco: 1:04:48

well, cuz it'd be frustrating seeing an article written that's simply not true. Yeah, well, then you would see

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:04:52

that happens all the

Daniel Franco: 1:05:53

I think what's interesting, though, is that football is our, you know, when we talk about receiving feedback, or constantly thriving on the feedback that you receive, and, you know, sometimes to differentiate the type of feedback or anything, whether it is external or internal, is that something that you talked about? It's like, look, the only the only thing that actually matters is what settings

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:06:15

you cite all the time. But the general fact is players will hear the outside feedback through their social media accounts through family and friends, that we're here and we can get you down they can and some players do let it get to a lot. You see, then you see a player take mental health leaf, look, you've seen more and more over the last few years, because they don't. They're learning how to deal with those pressures. What's different now compared to when I first started is the access that fans have to players and people was through social media, and not not all of it's good. So learning how to deal with that. How do you deal with those pressures? Which players are all trying to grow their brands as individuals while they're in the system? Yeah, through their social media accounts through the things they do appearances. So then the opening themselves up as well for for criticism and feedback from the general public. So it's, it's an interesting one to moving based.

Daniel Franco: 1:07:11

I think what's really

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:07:12

I think, sorry, I think because the other thing, when you get feedback, in a footy environment in the football club, it's not like personal attacking feedback. It's personal. Obviously, it's constructive. Yeah, trying to make it better about differences. When you get the other feedback from social media or people from outside. It's like targeted. And it's like, yeah, it's almost hurtful. It's very hurtful. And it's templates have struggled, because most players you meet them, they're very nice people. And they received that's just playing

Daniel Franco: 1:07:43

a game, right? Yeah. So that's what we got. I think that's what we actually need.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:07:46

Yeah. So that's, this is a game. So clubs are trying to help their players at the moment with these days with dealing with that stuff and ways around it.

Daniel Franco: 1:07:53

Yeah. Yeah. What I find really interesting is that the pressure not only from like external media and all the above, but the pressure to perform every game. Yeah. Like, that's huge. Because you think about in the corporate world, you can go away and you could sneak a day where you didn't really do much right where you can't do that in the Air Force.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:08:12

Judged your whole weeks judged for two hours every Saturday, Sunday or Friday night. Whatever you place your judge then I actually, Game Day was easiest day for me. Yeah, really. Yeah. footy

Daniel Franco: 1:08:25

came natural honey sandwiches.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:08:28

But it came natural to me more, but I enjoyed the pressure. I've got to really enjoy the pressure of the game day, the big games. enjoyed my teammates telling me they needed me in terms of moments and turn games, we need you, Shawn, I enjoyed that pressure. And I really look forward to it to be honest, because I thought there was you know why, at the time of the will, how big of a pat on the back is that from the team is telling you they need you in this type of situation. So the pressure of Game Day is quite big. And you know, before the games you see some players go on the toilet every you know, two or three minutes nerves every only going to play I'll have a vomit or some flowers shakes and players get red, but just a nervous of going and executing on a go to

Daniel Franco: 1:09:14

like on your front of all those people. Yeah, so

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:09:18

the pressure is big to form. And then I think that's also when you speak with live coaches and system coaches and sports like as well. Well, not only want to be a player, I want to be a good player. I want to be a great player.

Daniel Franco: 1:09:31

Yeah. I want to cement my spot in this team.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:09:34

That's consistency and performance, you know, every week and then every training session every week, you know, all those things that all comes together?

Daniel Franco: 1:09:42

Yeah, I mean, you would know this better than anyone right? But we're just given the fact that you've played more games than most can complacency creep in. You go right into I've made my I've got my spot and this team.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:09:53

Yeah, again. You probably see across the league, players have made it and then then they just fall away, you know, out of the system, or they might fall away for a day or two, and then firms are down to a year or two or a year. And then they come back. I was like, yeah. And then when they're very honest with those conversations like you're complacent, I didn't work as hard. Yeah. It's just I let it get to my head. Yeah. So some players are like that. Some players aren't. It's just, I think that's what separates the the legends of the game isn't over the whole career? Because they just kept performing?

Daniel Franco: 1:10:28

Can money get in the way of performance?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:10:31

We get? Why the moment the kids draft these ads again, got a big money.

Daniel Franco: 1:10:34

Yeah. Well, you look at someone like and I don't want to throw names out there. He's not playing football anymore. It was number one draft pick, he got traded to the Western Bulldogs for millions of dollars a year, and now he's no longer playing tomboy. And using that example, can this is expectations that the

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:10:52

I'm gonna show you, players and managers and financial advisors? So it's an individual basis? That's an individual case where? Well, I

Daniel Franco: 1:11:01

think from I think my question comes from the point of view of the viewer, they but you get this big money at such and such a young age that the pressure is enormous

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:11:11

to perform? Yeah, well, I think it's kind of like what you sign up, you know, on draft day, yeah, sign up the pressure, you know, the pressure is going to come you get, you know, rewarded very well, financially, the better you play, the longer you play. It's all part of it. But yeah, it's probably generally something that the young kids have to deal with being on because they 2120 Turning couple $100,000 When they they made still on apprentice wages. So it's a big step up.

Daniel Franco: 1:11:38

It's a it's a learning. I'm a firm believer that everything works better in stages, right? Yeah. You know, like, you think of some stairs, you take one step at a time, and you work your way out some of these young kids going into their full system and going from step number one to step number. And it's like, it's a tough, it's a tough pill to swallow sometimes. Yep. Moving into the diversity and inclusion space, and like you're obviously a big advocate in the diversity, inclusion space and doing a lot with indigenous progress, indigenous programs. And you know, in your book, you wrote that when you were younger, that people will look down on you because of your skin color. Yeah. Do you? Did you find that we've moved along way in the world today? Are you still? Where do you feel we sit in society and football in football particular?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:12:32

Yeah, it's, it's always going to be there. To be honest, it's hard to change the community and what people believe in. But that doesn't mean we have to stop trying, which is where I was bison and that basketball was keep trying to help improve the community. And as in the football sense, clubs are doing a lot to, to, you know, educate their players, their staff members, and you see, you know, putting up, knocks Doug Nichols around in the AFL, we're trying to help help educate the broader footy community, but we're still seeing acts and incidences of racial sledging from fans towards players on an instant, we spoke about the social media accounts, and the Instagram or the Twitter accounts. So it's forever going to be there to how to help continue to educate, there's, there's less obviously we had the tail Walker incident as a player a couple like last year, I think it was, but generally the planes that the playing side of things for for players is dropped away from competitor was a number of years through the work that clubs are doing with education. But in terms of your community, it's fun, that's going to be forever and for a long time, if not forever, but still can try and educate and try help the community

Daniel Franco: 1:13:50

you're you're wearing of number 67 in the in the set out, and who's around, which was obviously the year in which the Indigenous Australians are allowed to vote, which is a brilliant initiative. What you know, that must actually be a proud moment that you're allowed to do that and move away from number nine

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:14:11

was awesome to be to be able to change my number in recognition of the 50 year anniversary of the referendum. 67 I think it was May 27 through March. I think it's May 27. Yeah. Yeah, something that was great to be a part of, you know, my, my parents were born I think there was 151 a mum was born in 62 or something like that. So, you know, to think that they were alive before the actual referendum came in place, and they weren't really considered Australians or humans in the country before they came in and 50 years. That's, that's how I look at it. 50 is not long ago, but it's great to be a part of celebrating the referendum and, you know, 67 played swans in Sydney got the wind as well. Yeah. Yeah. It was a good weekend and great that we can bring awareness to win I'm about to 50 isn't so long ago,

Daniel Franco: 1:15:02

no. Doesn't seem like much of what I mean, what would you like to see more of then, you know, if you say, societies go a long way to go, and the community's got a long way to go, how do we, as a community get better? Yeah, well,

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:15:17

I think everyone's on. A lot of people on the reconciliation path. Obviously, we're walking together for a better future, a lot more businesses are coming on that path, having reconciliation, action plans, which, you know, holds businesses accountable. But businesses want to be accountable and business, you want to make a change, creating job opportunities, you know, mentoring opportunities, whether that's, you know, for males or females, but, you know, the way forward is through reconciliation together, you know, we've got a, there's a long way to go in this country in terms of the history of the country, and whether it's the right history is taught or not taught. To, you know, you can't change the past, but we can always learn from it, and we can always move forward. And but yeah, reconciliation, to be honest, is the way together. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:16:10

It was actually quite nice. The economy, when was Monday or Tuesday, you said you're better jump on a zoom call, talking about diversity and inclusion within the football club, that port we're doing some training, you know, obviously, with the female cohort coming in, and it must be exciting having Aaron come across to port you know, there's a bit of learning that needs to be go, that needs to go into, into the players and the and the staff as well, in learning that, you know, people identifying certain different ways and all that is it is a whole whole new world for the football club now and that you've seen these certifications coming through, because it's really exciting to hear that you guys are doing that. Yeah,

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:16:52

that's great. Well, we're gonna have footy club, it's gonna be whole now. Women have played a huge part in history. And now they actually can play and be a part of it. And not only just watch work and play, and yeah, the club's gone through a cultural change for the for the better, because there was never, there was just never 40 players there. Now there is might be even not sure the list sizes, roughly 40 players, five or six coaches. So they're coming on board, which is great. And everyone's super excited to have the have the women involved in play and, and then you know, how to make them feel comfortable and welcome, you know, as elite athletes for the Polo footy club in the club's pumped to be a part of the that process and that transition from just all males playing to having females come on board and have their own team? And yeah, it's exciting part.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:42

I think, yeah, it was really, it's actually really nice to hear just purely from an education point of view that the clubs are putting time and effort into into this sort of stuff, which is, you know, to football club. You know, there's businesses and organizations doing that all around the world. But it's Yeah, exciting to hear that. Because I think football and sport in general is so public facing. So if they're leading the way, in trying to improve from a diversity and inclusion point of view, then then hopefully, you start seeing the public in the community take on some of those lessons and yeah, and values. And

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:18:19

number one sports. So you have a big platform, correct? Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:18:23

100% family, I want it before we sort of round off. I want to talk quickly about your family, like on your book here, you've got football, family, respect family, and I just knowing your family is huge and critical to you in your life. And you've mentioned we've talked about Amy, I was hoping she would be here I was gonna get her to jump in on the on the podcast, but you obviously are, you know, obviously, she's played an instrumental part in your career and your life over, you know, having four kids and being that sort of, I guess rock so that you can concentrate on, on, you know, your passion and love and, you know, like you said before she put her her career and essentially not life, but her career on hold. What some how is there? I think what's really interesting for me is is the the strength in the relationship there. There is there is actually some really good behaviors that you see coming out of you two both right and, you know, kind of look up to you both in a way that Amy has that ability to really as give herself because you said to you said to you said earlier and we talked about earlier how you have to give back. Yeah, so that you guys had seem to have this really great ying and yang. Moving on, is there is there some success in in this relationship that you can share because it seems to be working really well? You know, obviously, all relationships have their ups and downs. We get that but yeah, it just seems that you have you both have this sort of really nice fit at the

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:20:06

That was my successes and her success. And moment. it's not possible without her to be honest, any of my funny success. You know, we're in Melbourne and you know, people say, Oh, footy players, you've got nannies and all this stuff. Yeah, have no nanny, or any of that stuff. It's we moved to Melbourne, I had a couple cousins playing for a couple of different AFL teams. And that was it. We didn't know really anyone else. So, you know, we had to rely on each other when we first went there, which was a great thing. And yeah, she's, she's done, done it all in Melbourne with me. And yes, she's done it really, really well. Like, you know, when we get sick, well, I get I get sick. You look after me. And the four kids in Melbourne were really nice support, to be honest, because it's just us. And then, you know, when she gets sick, I'll have to take some time off training and help. And then you just kind of grow and we went over there with two kids. And we came back with four. Yeah, so it's all part of the journey part of the, the experience but none of my footy career success is possible without her to be honest to you,

Daniel Franco: 1:21:09

to you take into consideration like your desire for feedback and your ability to communicate and also give feedback and does that help the relationship?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:21:23

It's a bit different. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:21:25

It is definitely different. But it's

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:21:26

a lot different than our Yeah, I think it definitely helps. Well, when you've got Wi Fi schedule, and then you've got four kids in Melbourne, and they've got football, netball, basketball, athletics, you know, or after school before school excursions, so you got to communicate, to try and open

Daniel Franco: 1:21:47

so communication is clear, critical.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:21:51

communicate that with the club under the pump. Can I leave training early? Because I'm gonna help out with this or can I get back early from a game? Because I've got these things going on the communication skills needs to be on point otherwise, I just see that me myself doing everything and still how I want to do things I want to help as much as I possibly can.

Daniel Franco: 1:22:11

So you four beautiful kids. Ky, Percy Leni, Nixie Nixie is the terrier that you explain. I love it to bits. But when you have kids did that make you more hungry? Did it create more hunger far in the belly for you? Or did it take you away from your desire to play football and kids? Yeah, well, I think like because

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:22:38

it's exciting now I love the fact that come to games and watch games they scream. We have kids earlier. So yeah, finally, my my teammates are playing with now and having kids and they're 23 31 so they always wanted to be a young father. And we you know, worked out that way in the last probably Nixie six so I think she I think Nixie was born the week before the AFL Grand Final in 2017. There might have been Leni, one of the girls. One of the girls were born the week before the AFL Grand Final and you know we got some Hawthorn closed off a Build A Bear Yeah, tell us more she was put on she was having grandfather that's hilarious within five days after being born so they've been at the footy the whole lives and then they've grown up watching me play footy and scream and Beric and jump in the car after a game and give feedback to feedback and brutal straight after a game jump in the car or bust it up Why did you do this? Or why didn't you do that? And this is part of coming to

Daniel Franco: 1:23:45

you. That's so good that they show the interest in

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:23:49

the game but it's more exciting because then I saw the look on their faces like I'm gonna keep playing as long as I can to keep having built keep having building these memories with them. Yeah, so then one day they'll tell their kids I should take a look at the footy when I was a kid Yeah. Pass on those stories.

Daniel Franco: 1:24:04

There's there's a bit of there's a bit of pressure on the to your two oldest to become great footballers. It's not that you're putting that pressure on him but the world would would look at look at them and go Well he's one of the AFL greats. He's got two young lads and obviously Leni and Nixie if they decide to get into football as well, they can with the with the female with the WAFL can it if they had a choice if you know say all things and all the environments went in the right direction would you prefer them playful horse I

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:24:42

don't care about the father son now not too bothered at all. It's long. It's hard enough to get drafted. Or think good enough to fly them. They can play for anyone.

Daniel Franco: 1:24:53

Really? What's it like being outside of the AFL system now?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:24:56

Yeah, it's a lot different than mental release of head stuff. Stop playing it's huge. So you're like I don't have to prepare anymore I've got my body's not feeling as sore as it already is.

Daniel Franco: 1:25:09

Is there an element of you always you just always living in pain?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:25:12

Yeah when you're playing footy Yeah, to be honest, my last probably five or six years probably saw most days of my life.

Daniel Franco: 1:25:18

How do you get yourself up every day?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:25:21

Yes, you just deal with it to be honest, you know you're going to be sore gives you something to do you go to the club and do something to get in the pool, physios Pilates massage, yoga, acupuncture, cupping.

Daniel Franco: 1:25:37

How important is stretching and yoga in the appropriate like, just Yeah,

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:25:41

well, I've been doing Pilates since my first year put out one So 21 years we're doing

Daniel Franco: 1:25:47

is it something you did every day? Like just to say nimbu

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:25:50

yoga, the proper yoga sessions probably once a week. Proper sit down and do proper yoga session once a week but stretching every day. More neural stretches, stretching, you know, the neural stretches. Explain that. What's that? Are you know, just when you you know, in the lower back? Looking nerves, trying to stretch in those type of stretches? Yeah, well, I just every day is dedicated to getting your body better. Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:26:21

I don't I never knew how important stretching was until I got older. Like I literally feel like well, I'm doing you're stretching all the time. Every day. I get out of bed. I can hardly and I'm not even doing anything. All I'm doing is running around the block. Yeah. Very good. So we did touch on your sister in law quickly. Erin back at the club now at Port Adelaide. You know does this feel like a big family affair for you guys now that

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:26:46

she's excited to be back? I haven't seen her because well at the moment the girls coming after when we okay. Yeah. But what's what's on the TV at the moment, but when they start playing my girls want to get every game and con piece they actually really want to support any guarantee. So we had all the AFLW games here. We every AFLW game that was in Melbourne and Erin played with go watch. Yeah, so we'll be big supporters.

Daniel Franco: 1:27:13

How does one family have two of the most successful people in how you think about what you know Shaun Burgoyne in the amount of games and success that you've had in premierships? And then you've got Erin who in her own right is one three premierships

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:27:27

was always gonna be successful in whatever sports she chose

Daniel Franco: 1:27:30

I played footy against in under the names of West lakes she played in the in the young boys competition, and she dominated I beat her in the in the best and fairest, but now she's an absolute superstars and in basketball, and everything, obviously went over there, too. How do you find being on TV every weekend?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:27:50

Yeah, it's different. Now. I never thought I'd get in the media party honest. It's it's a different set of nerves, you got to execute a different set of things. Compare the playing? Yeah, I'm enjoying it. It's going okay. They keep asking me back every couple of weeks a good sign stuff. And it's enjoyable.

Daniel Franco: 1:28:07

You said to me before that off off air that you had no prep, they just gonna throw you in there. That's amazing that because you are actually providing some really tremendous value. Like when you when you do make a comment you kind of you think about in your accent? I didn't think of it from that point of view. Is it? Is it a tough gig and he said you got to make a comment in six or seven seconds, it would be really tough to do it is

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:28:31

I think they give you some general feedback. Well, this is before you go on. Well, this is how we like it to go. We'll give you feedback as you go along. It's live don't forget, so yeah, no swearing, please. Yeah, that's no swearing and just remember, don't touch your microphone button when you don't want it because it'll come on, you know, just little bits here and there. But you just kind of just sit back for a bit and watch and just jump in when you need to and then before you know your first game out of the why and then you review it and then you get ready for your second and but yeah, it's it's something

Daniel Franco: 1:28:59

being on the boundary, how do they know that you're about to say something? Or vice versa? Like how does it just it's always done as a system.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:29:06

Here is this system to win your loan at so when the ball goes out of bounds or you know, like a stoppage Yeah, you can jump in here because the actual play by play calling by BT and Brayshaw and the other guys so hard to do that those guys have genuinely got a lot of talent to do that. Yeah, really. But yeah, there's a system to it and you do talk through that before Yeah, production meetings and stuff.

Daniel Franco: 1:29:28

So ball goes out of bounds we should expect for voice is that

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:29:35

really good people and they help you along the way?

Daniel Franco: 1:29:37

Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. What's the next 5 10 years look like for you?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:29:43

I'm not sure to be honest. I haven't thought that far. Yeah, just relocated back here. Kids are in school sport. Doing obviously channel seven stuff I'm doing some Triple M stuff. But I'm not doing seven I'm do Triple M games as well. Started my own cleaning business. That's fairly Busy. And then I'm trying to do some appearance stuff as well.

Daniel Franco: 1:30:04

On The Property Council stuff the other day was yeah, the property.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:30:08

The Property Council breakfast reconciliation, breakfast. Yeah. Great. group of business day who on the reconciliation path as well, which was really

Daniel Franco: 1:30:15

good. I know Daniel Gannon very well, he's been on the show. Property Council. Executive.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:30:20

Yes, sir. Trying to fit all that in. So at some stage, things will quieten down I'm not too sure when that will be that

Daniel Franco: 1:30:26

would seems like it's picking up it is. The world is

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:30:30

you're looking for five jobs. Why it's

Daniel Franco: 1:30:33

so strange. But I mean, obviously, in high demand. So kudos for all that you're doing?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:30:38

No. Yeah, it's busy. I'm falling asleep very easy at night. That's, that's why we're having a few drinks.

Daniel Franco: 1:30:46

Lately, but we will we will.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:30:49

It is enjoy whatever beer at the end of the night or wine or something. Just actually relax a bit.

Daniel Franco: 1:30:54

Yeah. No doubt. All right. We're gonna round off with some quickfire question. Yep. Now you're an author. So you can basically give your book a plug here, but what are you reading right now? I mean, do you read much

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:31:07

I don't really read much at all. I want to read. I want to read more to be honest. I just I just actually don't actually physically have the time. Yeah, I'll be honest with you a lot. I get to work. Normally finish work has been very busy at work. And I speed home to get here. By the time I'm here. I'm normally here for five or six minutes, and then keep jumps in the car, taking them to training come back. And then it's like, I'll start helping with tea. And then yeah, another kid's got to go to another training and get back and then all of a sudden, it's well then have dinner and then it's alright. It's pooped, and we're good to go Bath Shower, get your school clothes ready. So get the school clothes written up before, start getting the bags ready. And then holding it's 930 called attendance like going to bed. Yeah. And then you repeat, then Europeans from weekend's come and then it's all the kids have got sport. They have to be in different parts of the or could be traveling into state.

Daniel Franco: 1:32:04

Yeah. If you want to read more, try audible. Have you heard of audible before? It's like audio? Oh, yeah. Just jump on.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:32:11

Yeah, so I'm actually trying to find time.

Daniel Franco: 1:32:15

Well, you know, when I is when I'm, when I'm waiting for something, or I'm going for a walk or a run or I'm in the car driving? I just checked it on yesterday. That's the only time you firm believer that you always have to work on on your knowledge and improvement. Do you listen to podcasts or anything? If no time? Other than other than this one?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:32:42

Yeah, like it. Some people say they're busy. Looking ahead for some free time, I'd really like to be able to do that. Yeah, be honest.

Daniel Franco: 1:32:50

Yeah. I think I've always stuck with this mentality that I've always had. And I'm not suggesting in any way shape or form that you're not busy. But what I think what I've always I've always had in my head that out there somewhere. There is someone who is busier than me who's reading a book or going for a run or there's always someone that's been doing more

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:33:08

even the last couple nights were like, Let's go for a walk. I mean, I may have gone for a walk. It's been 830 at night. Yeah. Just go for walks or go for a walk for a half an hour or just, let's see, it's raining, it was freezing. Look down the beach. But now what are we gonna get time to go for a walk? So

Daniel Franco: 1:33:26

yeah. What's one lesson that's taking you the longest to learn?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:33:33

For me, probably the putting faith and trust in others relying on others. Like we think we touched a little bit before. I thought I can get to a certain point in my career by myself. And then he can don't just it's just he actually need to trust and put faith in the others. And especially when I had my knee surgery, I needed to do that. Yeah. Because they're the experts in their field in medical, the medical side of things. So they're putting trust and faith in others knowing you can't do it yourself.

Daniel Franco: 1:34:04

Yeah, I think I'm going through the scenario. If you're gonna have three people for dinner, they'd be

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:34:13

really interesting one. Yeah. So you took me through these questions ever think about or thought about who would it be? I always thought it'd be cool to have dinner with like Michael Jordan. Obviously growing up as a kid I was Chicago Bulls fan. Yeah. When we all bulls are no Magic Johnson you know, so I thought it'd be always cool to catch up and have dinner with him to pick his brain. I really like acting so Denzel Washington is one of my favorite actors seven.

Daniel Franco: 1:34:46

Remember the Titans is one of the movies and Pyro

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:34:49

probably, you know, probably Barack Obama. A lot, you know, to brilliant, probably to see pick his brain about the world he sees Is it you know, he would know some stuff they would die some stuff. Exactly right. So yeah, I mean, it's real they're probably the three come the top of my mind. Yeah, I don't really want to. You don't if you get a chance to meet three people, you probably don't want to stick with the sport but not Jordans been probably model since

Daniel Franco: 1:35:22

we haven't ran for dinner. I'm gonna environment I'm gonna get invited myself if Well, what's some of the best advice that you've ever received?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:35:33

me just the advice of him growing up as a kid, you know, stay humble, you know, respect others treat others the way you want to be be treated. You know, be humble. Whether you have success in your life or you know, especially it was probably, especially if your success is you know, there's people doing it worse off than you. Who could use a help? Helping Hand so probably Yeah, that's probably a couple. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:36:00

I love that. If you had access to a time machine, where would you go?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:36:07

Well, probably in all honesty, I probably go back to the damsels or Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:36:11

that'd be pretty cool.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:36:12

Yes. See what it was like. It seems like a pretty interesting time. Yeah, just to see what the earth look like. Animals like, you know, my, my kids are going through that phase. schoolwork and stuff like fossils, and my youngest daughter talks about dinosaurs. We went to watch Jurassic Park the movies recently I loved

Daniel Franco: 1:36:35

I love the dress. Yes.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:36:37

Probably the dinosaur era.

Daniel Franco: 1:36:38

Beautiful. If your house is on fire, yeah. And your family and pets and everyone was safe. What was would be one thing you'd grab?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:36:48

Oh, very. That's a tough one. I'm not sure. My two boys would say got their PlayStation. They've got a PlayStation. That's it. That looks good. We've got some pictures that have our family members in the House. Digital so probably trying to grab a picture or two. Yeah. Yes. Everything else is rental. Yeah. Everything else is replaceable, to be honest.

Daniel Franco: 1:37:17

Yeah.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:37:18

I've got I've got one of my great grandmother's, some of my great great grandmother's blankets in the cupboard. So probably, you're gonna think about it. That'd probably be the first thing I'd go. Yeah, I've got that blanket. So my great grandmother's Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:37:34

Put that question out.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:37:36

Good, actually fun. Yes, key. Number one thing I'd grabbed.

Daniel Franco: 1:37:41

Yeah. Absolutely. If you had one superhero power, or could have one superhero.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:37:53

I'd like to better fly. Yeah, flying is pretty cool.

Daniel Franco: 1:37:56

To be free.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:37:59

It's always birds in the backyard. They fly away. So that yeah, that sounds like a good thing to have.

Daniel Franco: 1:38:06

Yeah, it's pretty yeah, pretty. Now what my favorite question, what's your best dad joke?

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:38:16

I don't really have one. Here was my middle son. He reads dad jokes, books. And he comes up with jokes all the time. I don't know. He bought bought this book for like, $3 somewhere. $4. And it's just food. That joke that jokes. He read it over and over and over. And he's got them all in his head.

Daniel Franco: 1:38:34

I could sit for an hour with person and

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:38:36

he sits him and tells him the name. I don't remember any. Not.

Daniel Franco: 1:38:41

No. Yeah, nothing better than a good dad joke. Look, thank you very much for your time today, man. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on thank you for agreeing to come on. Thanks for having me. And thanks for thanks for all that you've done and all that you are doing and all that you're going to do I guess in in the world of bringing awareness and obviously, you're an inspiration to many. So kudos for your career, and everything that you guys are doing.

Shaun Burgoyne: 1:39:11

Thanks. I really enjoyed it.

Daniel Franco: 1:39:13

Thanks, guys. We'll catch you next time. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Or you can check out the show notes if there was anything of interest to you and find out more about us at Synergy iq.com.au I am going to ask though, if you did like the podcast, it would absolutely mean the world to me if you could subscribe, rate and review. And if you didn't like it, that's alright too. There's no need to do anything. Take care guys. All the best.

Synergy IQ: 1:39:39

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