Synergy IQ: 0:01

Welcome to Creating synergy where we explore what it takes to transform. We are powered by Synergy IQ. Our mission is to help leaders create world class businesses where people are safe, valued, inspired and fulfilled. We can only do this with our amazing community. So thank you for listening

Daniel Franco: 0:19

Hi there synergisers and welcome back to another episode of The creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco and today on the show we have the inspiring Gatik Chaujer. He is the co founder of the global and award winning leadership development firm Transform Me. He is a passionate facilitator, coach and keynote speaker with 20 years of training and coaching experience, and his own journey is a story worth listening to. Gatik is driven by his mission to transform a million lives, and his uniqueness lies in his innate ability to connect spontaneously share and be mindfully present and bring humor to learning. Gatik is not just a brilliant storyteller, but a highly sought after storytelling coach for speakers, leaders and marketers of the world in leading organizations such as Google, Adobe, EY, McKinsey and many, many more. His expertise lies in the art of leadership development, coaching and mentoring leadership team synergy, storytelling and influencing without authority. A completely family orientated man, Gatik enjoy spending his time with his beautiful daughters Keisha and Kira and his wife Sandra. On today's show, Gatik and I deep dive into his journey into becoming a world class facilitator and coach. He then shared with us his many experiences of starting a very successful business in India to picking up the family and moving to Australia in the quest to grow the business globally. Being the masterful storyteller that he is Gatik actually told us a story on how to tell a good story. It was like poetry in motion. We also talked about all the aspects that make a good story and what actually keeps people glued and get it was kind enough to share some tips and tricks on how to become a better storyteller and communicate with influence. We also touched on his superpower of listening and observing and his thoughts on self awareness when leading people and the importance of being present in the moment. Gatik also empowered us all to challenge our own beliefs. And he provides a great platform and starting point for those who are looking to So welcome back to the creating synergy podcast. My name is transform and grow. It was an absolute pleasure talking with Gatik and I know you're absolutely going to love this chat. If you would like to check out his profile then you can find it at Gatik Chaujer on LinkedIn, which is GATIK CHAUJER on LinkedIn, and then check out his company page as well Transform Me, feel free to connect with me to where you can Daniel Franco. And today we have Gatik Chaujer on the show the co find me Daniel Franco on LinkedIn or synergy IQ on LinkedIn. If you'd like to learn more about some of the other amazing leaders that we've had on the creating synergy podcast and be sure to jump on our website at Synergyiq.com.au. Or check us out at the creative synergy podcast on all the podcast outlets. Cheers. founder of transform me.

Gatik Chaujer: 3:24

you got that last name bit right.

Daniel Franco: 3:26

(inaudible audio) Yes. I don't know something about that. Au in your name that makes me go aw. Yeah, as opposed to the or

Gatik Chaujer: 3:37

as long as you don't remember me with the aw

Daniel Franco: 3:41

Brilliant, thank you for coming on today. Thanks for having me. expert in all things leadership, storytelling transformation. You've done TEDx talks, you run your own business got a large, large following both here in Australia and overseas. Tell us a little bit about yourself. And you know, how did you? How did you become a master and all these things? And how did you find yourself here in South Australia?

Gatik Chaujer: 4:04

Okay, don't start off with the performance anxiety. Not a master for sure. But I love this Daniel, I first off, I don't see myself doing anything else. Ever.

Daniel Franco: 4:19

Brilliant

Gatik Chaujer: 4:19

Ever!

Daniel Franco: 4:21

Why?

Gatik Chaujer: 4:23

I've asked myself that question a few times on it. I've got a few answers to that. But it really boils down to my dad. It always I see a lot of threads going here and there. But it just kind of narrows down to my dad and my initial years with him. So my dad was a pilot in the Indian Air Force. And apart from that he was just a phenomenal human being. And I talk about him a lot in my workshops and in my talks. And one of the qualities of his that I guess rubbed off on me at an early age which I realized now is He was this person who always wanted to help. Always, you know, he'd see a stranger on the road, he'd want to help him or her, we'd be invited to parties, right? And because he was in the Air Force, and there were a lot of parties happening, right. And he would insist that we be one of the first few people to arrive at the party and get ready first, which my mum would get quite pissed off about. But the reason he wanted to do that Daniel is because he wanted to get there and help out the hosts. Yeah, in setting up the place. Can you believe that? Yeah. And he would make us do that, too. So yeah, I guess the reason I do, what I do is, I've just had this need this desire to help people. And 22 years back, I discovered training, quite by accident, which is another story. And I discovered that can be my vehicle to help people to enable them. And so that's what I've been doing for 22 years. And when I set up, Transform Me with Sandra 10 years back, it was the same intention to help bring about transformation in people. So yeah,

Daniel Franco: 6:09

yeah. So So tell us your story, then, you know, we'll get to because I want to unpack what it means to help people. But your story on on your growth and learning in this space, and and how you became, you know, a mentor to many? Coach to many. Yeah, yeah.

Gatik Chaujer: 6:33

It's, it's been, it's been a linear progression. Honestly, it's, if you ask me, What have you done? last 22 years? Daniel, if you asked me that question of since you started working, I have just done this. I really haven't done anything else.

Daniel Franco: 6:54

Right. I'm straight into it.

Gatik Chaujer: 6:56

And yeah, I mean, this is the only thing that I know to do. I set up my business 10 years back, and I honestly, I struggled with doing bits of that. And Sandra does a lot more of that than I do. I've learned to do it now. But this is really all that I've done. So when I say it's been a linear progression, I started off as I got, I honestly got lucky. 22 years back when I was working with a technology company back in India, and you know, 20 years back what the situation was like in India, with the tech boom, and all of that. So I was in the right place at the right time, there was a lot of growth opportunities, and they need to train us. And this company I was working with, you know, opened up an internal position for a trainer, and about 60 of me and my friends applied for it. Interestingly, Sandra, my wife and other co founders, she also applied Yeah, well, yeah. So she, she applied, and she never lets me forget that, even today that if she hadn't withdrawn her application, 22 years back, I would not have become a trainer. Because she didn't would remove the application because, you know, we applied for that position. And Sandra was a little scared about the person who was going to interview us for that position, she withdrew, and I hadn't applied at that time, there were 60 people and I was this this was literally the shy kid who had this huge inferiority complex, right? Because I always compared myself to my siblings to my cousins, and all of them were Academy kid brilliant. And I was, you know, I would just create through my classes, right? Yeah, don't tell my daughters. I tell them a story about how great i was in Math.

Daniel Franco: 8:42

Yeah, but our kids now think we're the smartest people in the world. Hang on. You're funny when you

Gatik Chaujer: 8:48

tell the younger ones. 10. So she still thinks I can be Superman. My other one who's 16 knows pretty much everything.

Daniel Franco: 8:56

Yeah, you got two girls

Gatik Chaujer: 8:57

I've got two girls.

Daniel Franco: 8:59

On my oldest is 10. And eight is my youngest.

Gatik Chaujer: 9:02

Yeah, it's beautiful. I feel I'm blessed to have girls, now that I have anything against boys. But that's just the way it is. So yeah, so became a trainer back then. Again, Sandra's the one who encouraged me to put that position put that application in 60 people apply became a trainer didn't know anything about training, really. And very quickly realized that I was at the bottom of the barrel amongst all the brilliant trainers in that company. This is 22 years back. Yeah, 21 years back. And I think what I did then because sometimes when in the flow of things, you don't know why you're doing what you're doing. It's only years later that you realize, okay, I did that because of this and because I'm the behavioral learning space and I'm able to connect the dots, at least I think I am. So I realized now that what I did back then is perhaps say to myself somewhere that you know, there's so many great trainers and speakers and coaches that are now part of this kind of great group. And I know most of them are born with it, because they're naturally good speakers naturally good at inspiring, motivating, and I'm not naturally. And it's almost as if I said to myself 21 years back, so what if I'm not good at it? I will, I will learn how to be good at it. I will figure out the science behind it, right. And I think that's what I've done really well over these last two decades, just just adding on just learning more i many, many years of training later, I got into T group, which is small group process work, learned Gestalt with Sandra German form of psychotherapy, neuroscience, life coaching. Bunch of stuff that helps me do what I do. Yeah. So it's just been leaning in, in adding on to that constantly, constantly, every year doing something. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 11:00

And the move to Australia. Tell us about what brought that on.

Gatik Chaujer: 11:08

So there's a funny story. Yeah. And there's the real story, right?

Daniel Franco: 11:12

It's kind of hybrid option.

Gatik Chaujer: 11:14

I actually went when my wife was not around, I tell people that the funny story is the real story. But because she may be listening into this, so. So here's version one. All right. partly true. All right. I exaggerate a bit. But so I met Sandra, like I told you about, you know, as long as I've been working here, two years back, we started working together. And we hit it off. And we were dating that time. And I became a trainer. And Sandra got deployed on a very interesting project where she was sent to Australia. So we were back in India 20 to 21 years back, and she was sent to Australia for six months on a project and she was in Melbourne. And that's the first time she had traveled outside of India. And, you know, she was in Melbourne for six months, she came back and we were dating. So we used to talk and everything while she was here. And the first thing that hit me is that bloody timezones don't match at all, whatsoever. But she came back six months later, and she was so happy. And we went out for our first dinner. And we already started talking about a long term relationship and perhaps getting married and stuff, we'd kind of started talking about it. And she literally looked at me and said, If you want to marry me, then, you know, you're gonna get me to Australia. Because that's the place I want to be. Yeah. So the funny thing is, I tell people that it took me 20 years to fulfill that promise. Three years back, and that she put a gun to my head saying that I'll only marry you. If you get me to Australia. She didn't do any of that. But so yeah, so that was it. And when she came back, and we had this conversation so that look, it's it's a beautiful country, we've got to it's so nice. And you know, I love the people there love the culture there. And let's move. So we actually put it out papers and everything that time, about 20 years back, and we've got family in Perth, who is supporting us with some sponsorship papers, and we actually got a visa. So we were pretty much ready to move to Australia 20 years back. And that's when my dad, and I've spoken to you about how much my dad has meant to me in my life. He passed away about 12 years back, but that's when when we got a visa my father was diagnosed with advanced Parkinson's. And he was having he is situation was deteriorating pretty fast. And so you know, Sandra, and I just made the decision. We said, Look, you know, you got to be with him. Yeah, you got to be with him and family first always. And so we just dropped that plan. I think about four years, five years after that. Six years after that dad passed away. But we had gotten busy with life. We were you know, building our careers. We will we bought a house. We had kids so the straight up plan went on the backburner. till about five years back, we made a trip down here, not exactly to Australia but we went to New Zealand and I had traveled a fair bit US Europe, Dubai, a lot of different places, but I've never been this part of the world. Five years back, Sandra's cousin was getting married in New Zealand. I went there and just I just fell in love with this part of the world. I know for the Aussies listening in, they're like Alright, you're really comparing with people across the ditch. But you know what I mean? Like the weather, the plays, the field, the nature everything and, you know, that just triggered that conversation back and that was really the trigger for us to move to Australia.

Daniel Franco: 15:00

So four years ago.

Gatik Chaujer: 15:03

yeah, yeah.Gonna be gonna be four years this November this December.

Daniel Franco: 15:08

Good. Have you ever looked back and thought it was the wrong decision?

Gatik Chaujer: 15:12

Or no, not at all? Not at all? Not at all. I think it has been one of the few, not one of the few, one of the many right decisions that Sandra and I have taken together. Yeah, absolutely.

Daniel Franco: 15:24

And I always, you know, Gabriella has come from Brazil, a few other people in our team have also, you know, moved over here and picked up and brought the partners or families or what have you, I've always seen that it's such a gutsy move, and especially to bring, you know, two children over, you know, would you say 16? And 10? What are they 12? And eight at the time, or twelve and six at a time? Sorry? It's, it's life changing for them to how did you go about that and your thought process?

Gatik Chaujer: 16:00

And that's that, that's, that's actually I love that question. Because, you know, for us, you're right, it was it was a big risk, not just in the dimensions that you spoke about Daniel, in terms of the family and the kids, the kids angle was actually actually not that big of a problem for us. Because Sandra and I both have been brought up in a very, in a manner that has made us resilient, I recommend for us, getting our kids to go through change and not getting in their comfort zone as part of the way we bring them up. So that's not been the big risk. But the big risk for us was we moved when we were 40. Right. And often people don't start a new life in that sense at that age, number one, number two, we

Daniel Franco: 16:49

there is a saying Life begins at 40.

Gatik Chaujer: 16:52

I love you. I love you for that. I think mine is going to begin at 50. Right. But I think the biggest thing for us is that Tansform Me has been our shared passion or shared mission for Sandra and me. And, you know, transforming has grown beautifully. We have 150 clients globally, and we work with some of the best names in the world. And when we decided to move to Australia, four years back, we'd been in business for about six, seven years, and transform me was doing brilliant. In India, it still is, but that time they were at the peak. And when we told people that, you know, we want to move to Australia. Yeah. Like what do you mean? What's going to happen to Transform Me? Yes, nothing's going to happen to Transform Me if you've got to be a capable team in India, we've got partners in India, they're going to continue, we're going to keep adding, said, but you're going to move? What are you going to do in Australia, we said, we're going to be setting up Transform Me in Australia. They said, You've got to be kidding us. Your business has never looked better. And you want to leave that and you want to start the business again, in a country, which you have no idea about which Australia. I mean, if you said the US and stuff I'd still understand because you work there. And you understand that market, and you're leaving this. It's not gonna work. So Sandra, and I actually we've been blessed. We've got a lot of mentors, and we speak to people to get their ideas and we spoke to a lot of people. Everybody Daniel, that'd be spoke to advised us against them. Every single person we met, and these are some really amazing nines and brilliant leaders I'm talking about and I have huge respect for them. They said it's not going to work.

Daniel Franco: 18:36

What was their reasoning?

Gatik Chaujer: 18:38

You're leaving your business at its peak. It's all gonna come crashing down. Number one, number two, setting up a business in Australia and expecting it to do the way it was doing in India. Not gonna happen. You know, Australia is a different market. And some people even told me ridiculous things like which are stereotypes that we have all of us have those and we talk about that in our unconscious bias workshops as well people said that, you know, if you're set if you're an Indian setting up an IT company in Australia, that is understandable. But you're an Indian running a leadership training and coaching company you got to be kidding me.

Daniel Franco: 19:14

It's funny because Australia is notoriously a racist country right.

Gatik Chaujer: 19:19

You know, I don't know how much you know about India. But the diversity in India is so huge Daniel that if I move from Delhi to Chennai, everything changes from me from now to sort from language, to weather, to food, to the way we look to the way we talk to the way we live to the clothes we wear. To the way we manage them, everything changes. So for me when I moved from Delhi to Chennai, if I take a three hour flight for a workshop, it's not very different from going to another country and what I mean by that is that racism or bias, I wouldn't even call it racism and called bias perhaps biases exist everywhere. And I'd be lying if I said that we didn't have bias in India where we talk about, you know, you guys talk about Melbourne versus Sydney, right? We have the same thing happening with Delhi versus Mumbai, right? And we call each other things which can be quite derogatory, right? I'm not gonna say them in this podcast. Right? And because, and there's name calling, and this, I guess that happens everywhere. Sure, maybe Australia has that too. But coming back to what I was saying, for us, the thing was, we've always taken risks and always done what we believed was right. And when I say we, I mean, Sandra and I, and we've, when we set up Transform Me a lot of people give us the same advice that it's not going to work, yada, yada, yada. Well, we, we said, alright, we heard you, but we're gonna do what we need to do. And we, we've got that belief. And look, we train and coach people about getting out of their comfort zone. Yeah. If we didn't do that, then then what's the point? That's, we're living a lie.

Daniel Franco: 21:05

We, you can't. There are other people's fears that, you know, that's their fear that they're putting on to you.

Gatik Chaujer: 21:13

Sometimes it's that but I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't just take that because sometimes for some of them, it was also the genuine care and concern about us, it wasn't just their fear. So they set it in the right intention, because they would have wanted the best for us. Right. So they are there a lot of care love concern for us when they said it. Because one of the advices that one of my leaders gave me once and I and I love that and I hold that to my heart was when you need to take a decision. Speak to people, when you need to take a big decision, speak to people get opinions, listen to everyone, but do what you need to do.

Daniel Franco: 21:53

Right? form your own opinion.

Gatik Chaujer: 21:55

or Yes, just just just, it's it's helpful to get opinions from people, but don't let that sometimes we let that overshadow that inner voice of ours, you know, and there's so much value in that inner voice, that instinct that gut gut feel. And yeah, so

Daniel Franco: 22:15

I'm a huge believer in that as well. I, if I'm trying to make a decision, I'll ask 20 different people, and it'll be from all walks of life, you know, people with super experienced people with no, not so much experience, but I know their gut, like they're strong and going with their gut, you know, and all the above. And yeah, and you formulate your own true, but you always end up where you kind of thought originally, I feel like you know, had this desire that you will get on a move to Australia, you go ask 20 people, you come back, you still move to Australia like it you kind of still because your gut feeling is That's

Gatik Chaujer: 22:45

it? That's it? Yeah, that's not just that. I mean, we moved and within the first three months, we had, yeah, we had things started to work for us. So yeah, knock on wood.

Daniel Franco: 22:57

or you knew know, the formula of business. Right? Was that, you know, the formula of business businesses if to its absolute most basic, you know, there's an element of hustle. Yeah. Marketing is sales is finding, you know, the basic fundamentals if you can pick that up, and you can almost make it work anyway. Yeah. And I think if you've got a quality product,

Gatik Chaujer: 23:16

I agree, and I think the, the thing is are you willing to, I think for me, the biggest lesson in that Daniel has been, are you willing to put yourself out of your own comfort zone with the intent to evolve and transform again? And again? And again? Can you do that?

Daniel Franco: 23:35

Well, growth is in the uncomfortable moments.

Gatik Chaujer: 23:37

100% is 100%.

Daniel Franco: 23:41

Your your story is amazing, right? And the story of you moving moving to in Australia and taking that pun, when did and the way you tell your stories, like I'm hanging off every word, which is brilliant. And so and I know you're you're an expert in storytelling. So I'm really interested in in unpacking your thoughts around because as you would work with a lot of leaders, we work with a lot of leaders that live people listening in are generally at that sort of leader level in business, who are looking to grow themselves personally and their development skills and behavioral skills. And I know for a fact that communication and influence is a critical aspect to leadership. I want to learn a little bit more about your approach to storytelling and communicating with influence. And I I'd love to just unpack that world, if you don't mind.

Gatik Chaujer: 24:46

Yeah, no, of course.

Daniel Franco: 24:48

So what in your opinion makes a good story

Gatik Chaujer: 24:57

you know, the, the space that I'm in Daniel is about enabling people to understand the impact they have on others. Right? And that's what leadership is. Storytelling is one of the vehicles to do that correct. Right. To understand the impact I could have on others in the way I could inspire them, engage with them influence them. What is a good story?

Daniel Franco: 25:38

What makes a good story? What

Gatik Chaujer: 25:40

makes it good? So

Daniel Franco: 25:40

what's the what's the fundamentals of a story? Yeah, and I kind of see a story as communicating with influence, right? When you tell a story, you want the person to feel something, you want them to be moved emotionally, or you want them to, to think about what you've just told them, and take it away. And you want them to, you know, you want them to, to bubble away in their, you know, psyche almost is the story, you know, and and we all know, and, you know, big readers, everyone, you read a great story in that book, books and stories can affect you. And not to mention that STORIES over TIME have blasted through, you know, hand in hand, it been handed down from generation and generation. And so there's something in that. Yeah. What do you think, in your opinion, makes the fundamental characteristics of a story.

Gatik Chaujer: 26:40

So the storytelling work that I do, and I've coached hundreds and 1000s of leaders and people globally on it, but the work that I do on storytelling, Daniel is really around business storytelling. But it's a lot about personal narratives, getting that emotional anchor and motivating, inspiring, engaging. Let me explain it to you by sharing a short story. Right, maybe that's the best way to do it. So on my, on my birthday on my on my first birthday that we celebrated here in Australia, my wife gifted to me the best gift ever. I always wanted to be a pilot, because my dad was a pilot. But I got these glasses, so I couldn't. So she gifted me my first flying lesson. Right. So we drove down. And one of these airports and you know, I had the flying instructor. And he briefed me it was a one hour briefing and then we sat in a two seater plane and the first time I'm about to be flying the plane, Danny level super kicked about it right. I even wore my Tom Cruise kind aviator, tracking, and all of that.

Daniel Franco: 27:47

I had the maverick jacket on.

Gatik Chaujer: 27:48

Oh, yes. I wish I had something like that with all the patches. I'm looking forward to that movie. But yeah, yeah. So we get on the plane. And he obviously has the yoke. And he's told me all the controls, and he takes off. And when we're in the middle of the air, he hands me the control. He said, you've got control. I said, I've got control. And he hands me over the yoke. And he told me you're on bank left back left bank, right, and you pull back, it goes up, down goes down. It was super easy. Right? And I got a little cocky. And I was like, Oh, this is fun. This is so simple. But he let me do that for five minutes. And then when it was time to learn, he said, Alright, I've got control. And he took controls, and he landed the plane. And I thought to myself that I did a brilliant job. Right, I step out of the plane. And I've got that smug look on my face. And I and I look at the pilot. And you know, in my mind, I'm thinking, you know, my dad was a pilot. So I'm born,

Daniel Franco: 28:45

it's in my genes.

Gatik Chaujer: 28:46

That's right, I'm better than others. So I look at him and I say, you know, so how did I do? And he goes, you did well. I said, Okay, so who can actually ask this question? You know, silly me. I look at it when I go. So how long do you think it's going to take me bots to learn how to fly a plane? He said the same 30 hours for the basic and then six years. So yeah, no, no, I get that. That's the standard. But how long do you think it would take me? There's a bit of a look at me. And he said, it's It's on. It's gonna take you about the same time that it takes anybody else. But let me tell you. It's a hell of a lot different and difficult. You're going to take a lot longer to learn how to land a plane, then you're going to learn how to fly a plane, which you did there for five minutes is not flying the plane. Landing the plane is the most critical thing. And the reason I share that is because in storytelling, it's never about the story. It is actually never about the story. It's about how you land the story at the key message. That's what makes a good story. When I coach people who say that they're naturally good storytellers. And some of them are, what they're often doing is Bob storytelling. Bob storytelling is fulfilling their desire to tell a story I want to inspire you, I want to tell you this, I want to be a good speaker, and they will tell a story for the sake of telling a story, which is entertaining. Yeah, perhaps. But the point is, does it land at the key message. Because when you've got to inspire and influence people, as a leader, you got to know what your key message is, you got to know where you want to land that plane. Because if you're just flying the plane in circles, and not landing it anywhere, that's bob storytelling, you're just talking in circles rambling away to glory, and people are looking in his eyes. What the hell is this person talking about? So to me, what makes a great story is learning how to land the story at the key message. So my workshops, the work that we do, me and my team, we focus a lot of emphasis on getting the key message, right, which means knowing your runway, before you even take off. So yeah,

Daniel Franco: 31:00

you landed that pretty well. Thank you. Thank you, if you. So if we're unpack your story, then write about the pilot. Yeah, you start off you descriptions. So clear, I can see the moment in my head. So there, for me, there is some element to the story that has to be quality, right? Because you could have just said, I just jumped in the plane and learned to fly you, you gave the backstory on something that I've always wanted to do this is my wife bought it for me, I was so excited. My dad's a pilot, like there's so much in that. Yeah, that I think is the skill set. Then, you know, then you added a little bit of humor into the story about you know, you know, I had it, I do, and then the landing and then you have and so like you've built it to this point, and then you've just smooth, you know, there was this beautiful smooth landing in the end. And so where does that skill come from? And is that a learned skill? And do? So if you were giving advice to a leader who was about to give a strategy session to his team, what would How would you say to prepare in your storytelling, or even just communication, if you just want to call it that to your team in a moment?

Gatik Chaujer: 32:27

Yeah, so you've asked me a couple of questions. Let me let me attempt to share my views on that. So number one, it's, it's a learned skill. Daniel, I, if you listened to my TED Talk, also, I talked about how I was this shy, unsure, under confident kid who was petrified of public speaking. So storytelling does not come naturally to me. I've learned I've learned the science of it, which is why I reckon I'm able to coach people on the science of it, because there is a method to it. You're right there, the eight elements of telling a good story, right. And I, the work that I do is based on the two pillars of storytelling, which is what I call telling the right story. And telling the story, right? Yeah. What you're talking about is telling the story, right? How do you deliver that story? How do you insert that visual? How do you get the characters names? How do you add that humour and stuff like that? So yeah, the elements, their characteristics to stories absolutely. And for, for anybody listening to this, who may want to use a story, in your next talk, or conversation or meeting or presentation? A couple of things I would perhaps say, number one, get clarity on your key message first, why do you want to land on right? I was once coaching somebody who said that, you know, My key messages, I want to tell people that 40% of advertising spend is happening digitally, and therefore you must do. I'm like, That's too transactional. So here's the other tip, the key message should not be transactional. Because the transactional stuff you're going to talk about later, your story that lands at the key message that bit it's got to be inspiring. It's got to be emotional anchor to it, they've got it's got to move people from within, right. So get your key message, right. Don't make it transactional, right? It's got to be a poetic statement almost. And that itself is a process that that needs to be learned. And once you have that, try and find an incident from your own life that relates to it. So let's say you want to tell your people that, you know, you've got to take risks. Let's say that's your message right? Now, the key message can't be you've got to take risks, that's too simple, right? As you unfold the layers of your team, and you understand that my team is not taking risks because they they're afraid of making mistakes and you know, afraid of being reprimanded. And so you get that context and you reframe that statement to say that, you know, when you don't take risks, you stop growing. Now, that still sounds simplistic, but that you've got something with a key message there. Now let's say you want to land Add, if you don't take risks, you stop growing. Now that's your runway. Now you go back, reverse engineer and say, Is there a situation from my life where I did not take a risk and I stopped growing? Or the opposite of that, where I took a risk and I grew, or another angle. Now these are eight patterns that I'm talking to you really quickly about, or you I don't want to tell my story because I don't want to sound too pompous. So do I know somebody else who took a risk and grew or did not take risk. And I started my story by saying, hey, you know what, my friend Jack, he used to work here. And he did this. And I add those eight elements of visuals. And he was earning a cup of coffee. And then he decided he was going to do that. But he didn't, because he was afraid of making a mistake. And he didn't take that risk. And what happened is that, you know, Adam did this and he went there. And at the end of the day, Jack lost out in life, because he didn't take a risk on landing the plane, and he stopped growing. Now you transition to your main message and say, hey, the reason I'm sharing this with all of you folks, is I don't want you to become like Jack.

Daniel Franco: 36:05

right position. And

Gatik Chaujer: 36:06

that's it. And now he'll now look at my slides, and let me share with you five things that you can do to take risk. So now you get transactional with them. So, you know, I'm giving you in a nutshell what I usually do in five to six hours. Yeah, I hope that answers your question. To some extent, no

Daniel Franco: 36:21

doubts, the list is any theory of process in its own right. Yeah. You know, and it's not something that people listening to this podcast, I think, what I think what I'm trying to really gauge from this conversation is that there it is in art, it is and, and, you know, get in contact with you if they if they want to learn more or gone do their own research. Joseph Campbell's book, right, the heroes. I love one of the best books ever. So I want to talk to you about the because you mentioned telling the right story was the other pillar. So telling the story right? And then telling the right story. I think your your 100%, right. I can't go to my kids and given a world war two example. Right, like so it's about telling the right story to the right audience. What if? What if the audience isn't at a point where the story that you're trying to portray will land? What if the listeners aren't able to understand because they're not at that level? Do you change the narrative of the story? Or like you? Do you pick a different story with the same message? Do you have to have three in the as backup journal domain that you would use based on the level of audience that you're speaking to? So if you're speaking to a psychologist, it's one story if you're speaking to a group of kids, it's a different story. Yeah. The but essentially the same message?

Gatik Chaujer: 37:49

No, absolutely. Right. Yeah, no, look, Daniel, I'm going to start off by saying this that I get this question a lot. I'm going to start off by saying that everybody likes the story. And I know this is going to be a controversial statement, because I'm sure there are people listening to this going. But there's some people who just left brain and analytical who just want that data. You don't gonna want stories. They're right. But they're also wrong, because even analytical people like analytical stories. So the first thing to know is that everybody likes stories, and there's an often more research that's done. In fact, Carnegie Mellon did a research in 2007 talking about how stories influence people 114% More than data. Yes. Wow. That's a big, big, big number. Right. But so what that means is you kind of answered the question, the story's got to be relevant to the audience. And when a story doesn't land, it is never I mean, I never say that, you know, the listeners were not ready for the story. No. i The storyteller did not make the story relevant for that listener story can be 30 seconds, the story can be 30 minutes, a story can have a lot of emotion and story can have no emotion, a story can have a lot of data story can have no data. So telling the right story is a about relevance. But it's also about eight patterns that I have learned by researching the works of a gentleman called Steven Denning, who's considered to be the world's foremost thought leader in the space of narrative intelligence, Steven Denning, Steven Denning, Steven Denning. There's a brilliant book of his called A Leaders Guide to storytelling. It's it's a biggish, slightly more academic book, but it's pretty good. Yeah. And a lot of research that he's done about eight patterns. And I have taken inspiration for that from that in the way we look at the way stories are told or the different kinds of stories Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 39:48

Can you give us a quick rundown on those patterns? Or is it too is it will it be too long to deep dive into?

Gatik Chaujer: 39:53

No, I could. And this is all Steven Dennings work. I have to give him credit for that. So for example, there's a pattern called the Who am I pattern. right, the Who am I pattern is about how do you introduce yourself using a story. You know, let's say you're a leader, you're meeting up a new stakeholder for lunch, right? Or you meeting up your team, where you often many of us introduce ourselves by simply rattling off our resume. Right? But can I use a story to introduce myself? So that's who am I? Then there's a pattern called sharing knowledge. How do you share knowledge through a story, those are usually stories of failure. Then there's a pattern called Springboard story, which I really love, which is about inspiring people by events that have happened in the past with you or with somebody else. There's a pattern to obtain the great one, there's a pattern to foster collaboration, there's a pattern to transmit values. What am I missing? There's a pattern to lead people into the future, which is what I call the just imagine stories. So I think I shared six or seven out of those and yeah,

Daniel Franco: 40:55

brilliant. I want to dive into every single one. I'm gonna go read that book, I think. We talked about the listener, and the audience. On the other side. There's a there's a gentleman who you and I are quite close with his name's Connor. Okay. He said some nice words about us. We're gonna He's gonna love that we plugged him in. So if he's listening that I can bet to this a big smile on his face. I can see, I can see him as well, in the mind's eye never leaves. So he's also he's been on our podcast, so Okay. And we spoke a lot about sales and sales. Like storytelling is, you know, paramount to being able to influence people, right? Yeah.

Gatik Chaujer: 41:38

But sales are so much more than storytelling. Conner is suddenly an expert at that he

Daniel Franco: 41:42

absolutely it's check out that podcast, if you want to. So he wrote, he wrote me a text because I wrote him and I flicked him a text messages. So Gatik is coming on the show. Throw some questions at me. I always like to get some outsider questions in. But he wrote this, he wrote, Gatik listens in such an impressive way. And it makes you feel as if you've known him forever, he pays to see around corners interpersonally with people, right. And that's a skill set. The ability to tell a story is one skill set, but the ability to listen. Yeah, is another and Connor said that's one of your, your greatest strengths. I'd love to know more about that. I mean, look, I run a podcast, it's my job to listen. So but it's something that it's taken me time to learn, right? And I'd love to know, your thoughts on it. And you may not have even thought much about it.

Gatik Chaujer: 42:41

No, I have, honestly, and I think that's a very sharp observation by Connor and beautiful for him to say that, um, you know, these are what I call my two polarities. And it's taken me a while to accept these two polarities and myself, because my biggest driver of the work that I do the transformation work, the personal transformation, leadership transformation, Team transformation work that I do has been about, has really been about this one line that I'm going to share, which is about helping people understand how their behaviors impact others. That's the underpinning driver, helping people understand how their behaviors impact others, and getting them to make changes so that they can create a more positive and a better impact on others. And that's where we do a lot of this deep transformational work, which is what I call Labs, which is what we created as labs in Transform Me and a lot of it has to do with psychodrama Gestalt, not just listening, Daniel, but observing. So 22 years, not 22 years because that we got into about 12 14 years back 12 14 years of practicing these methodologies of learning. D group Gestalt process work and stuff is really about when you're with somebody, learning to complete suspend everything else and be 100% mindfully present. In receiving that person and receiving that person's not just listening, receiving that person is listening, is also a lot of observing. Looking at how their body is shifting, what's happening, how are they feeling? What's likely going on? Have I done something to create that what's happening now, and just conscious being absolutely aware of what's happening there while you're being absolutely aware of what's happening inside. And that's the one that I really enjoy. That's the one that I really enjoy. And that's a lot of work that we do at Transform Me and this is that that's the deep transformational work and storytelling is this really exciting stuff. sexy. All right, let's get our message across. But this is some cross connect. So these are the two polarities, for me. It's not just listening. It's listening, listening, receiving, observing. And I really enjoy that. And our work actually depends on it. So yeah, yeah.

Daniel Franco: 45:19

It is it an acquired learning to? Because it's what I'm hearing is emotional intelligence. Yeah. It's the ability to read the room, it is understand the situation. Is that an acquired? Or is it something that you think you've born naturally with?

Gatik Chaujer: 45:42

hold such a good question. I think that some people will definitely more tune to themselves. It Yes, it is emotional intelligence in many ways, but it's a bit more than that, as well. But I feel some people are more tuned in to themselves, have a higher level of awareness of why they do what they do and how their behaviors are impacting others. Most of us can learn it, many of us can learn it, we can become aware of it. And that's the stage that most people get to. And I often find myself using this coat with my team or with my clients and say, you know, self awareness without action leads to frustration. Self awareness without action is nothing. Right? So many people get on this path on, you know, I want to become self aware. And that's beautiful. That's a great start. But what after that, it's got to move from self to outside. Right? When I become aware of myself, how am I becoming aware of how my behavior is impacting others? And how I'm becoming aware of what's happening with you? And can I sense the unset. So recently, we've created a new trading program called leading in a hybrid world, and one of our clients asked us to do that. And we created a model, which clients loving, and part of it is about this, it's about sensing the unsets. How many people Daniel Duino, who were able to do that, you know, we're able to sense the unsets, you know, and it takes a very high order of self awareness, situational awareness, others awareness, to be able to be present and get that and then do something about it. But that's what we need right now more than ever, where people can't see each other people are meeting each other. You get on a zoom call with somebody, heck, sometimes people don't even turn their camera on. So yeah, it's about listening. It's about observing. It's about really receiving the person fully and completely. Yeah. Yeah, I

Daniel Franco: 47:46

think there's a desire to want that to. Yeah. You think about the hustle and bustle of the business world? And so you ask, we see, I mean, we work in the world of culture and leadership change is the is the place that we play a big part in how do we help businesses and organizations go through large scale change, whether it is within leadership, or whether it is within a cultural program, whether it is in a digital project, we we are experts in that change space? So we work with a lot of leaders, right. And a lot of leaders listen, with the intent to respond. More so than listening with the intent to understand. And I think that's, for me, the most critical piece is when you're if you're self aware, you and you're listening with the intent to understand that you're self aware that there are others in the room who have great opinions.

Gatik Chaujer: 48:39

No, absolutely. In fact, I love that term. And let me share with you one of my favorite examples of helping people understand the impact because I'm an impact person. I'm not a person about so yeah, self awareness is a lot of the work that we do, but my real work is around our real work is around. How do you impact people? Yeah, right. And when you talk about listening to understand listening, respond, I, I use the analogy of a loaded gun. Right? Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 49:04

You do the same one that your wife?

Gatik Chaujer: 49:08

Oh, my God, I'm not sure. I'm not sure why I shared that with you. I didn't I didn't realize I got such a good memory. Oh, God, I wish you never meet Sandra. I'm just kidding. I do hope you get to meet up. But um, you know, very often as leaders, as people as individuals, we are so hardwired and we often like loaded guns, right. And I use this example, when I'm in a workshop, talking about this listening to understand listening to respond. And I'm sharing this because listeners may be able to get a perspective on this. So imagine you're at work. And you've had a terrible day at work. Just imagine, right? You've had a terrible day. Everything that had to go wrong has gone wrong. Your boss your supervisor screamed at you. Your client is upset with you, you Your best team member is quitting. You missed a critical deadline. There's an escalation. It's just been one of those shitty days, right? I'm sorry, can I use that? Okay, great. So it's just been one of those really terrible days. And, you know, the day ends and you're really looking forward to getting back home, right? So you sit in your car, and you're still you're still thinking about work and you start driving home. And now you're in this mode, you're saying, Alright, I'm getting home. I've got to switch off work. I've got to stop thinking about home. Alright, what are we going to do for dinner? what's gonna be happening? Right? My son, Adams home. My son, Adam is five years old. I'm going to spend some time with Adams. If you're thinking this when you're driving. I'm going to have myself a nice glass of wine. I'm going to spend some time with my kid. What is that I'm going to be doing now. It's five o'clock. Boy. I hope he's done his math homework. He didn't do it last time. And I you know, the teacher spoke to me about it, because his math is not good. Yeah, he's got to finish that he's got his NAPLAN test coming up on did he do it? It's 515. Well, I better check with him if he's done his math homework. because math is really critical. Not this is all I'm thinking. Right? Math is really critical for him. Okay. No, but I bet he's not doing it. He's, he's playing Minecraft. I know, he's playing. And I got to tell that boy, I gotta be a better parent, I've got to put some direction and you thinking all this all self talk, right? So you get home. But let's say you're a loaded gun. Because you've got all of this, you know exactly what you want to say to your son.

Daniel Franco: 51:33

Right? You walk in his own Minecraft.

Gatik Chaujer: 51:35

You walk in, whatever your son is doing. Regardless of that, you walk in, you put your bag down, you put your phone away, and your son comes running to you. Right? hugs your legs, right? As a dad, you don't want to the best day in school ever. I did this and we went for a race and you kind of ruffling his head saying, yeah. So you know, we did a race. I came second in the race. And then we did this. And we did that. And you say, yeah, and the moment he stops to take a breath. You say these words? Yeah. Okay. By the way, did you do your math homework. And you have lost and you have killed that moment? Because you missed being present with your child in that moment when your child told you that they've come second in a race? Yeah, you just missed that moment, because you were just waiting for an opportunity to say what you've already decided you're going to say. And therefore you're absolutely not present. Imagine the impact of that behavior on that person, or take it away from your child, to your co workers, to your colleagues, to your spouse to your partners. Right. So that's really the impact of not being present in a conversation. Really? Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 52:45

It's picking on the small things that don't matter, really, isn't it? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So in that, you know, we've talked about storytelling. We talked about self awareness. We've talked about listening. But in that I'm hearing the story that we tell ourselves, right, like, you know, we make up scenarios in our head. Why do we do that? Why don't why who, you know, on that drive home, why are we telling ourselves stories that almost don't. Well, they don't exist, we make it based on assumption. And it's based on previous experiences. How do we learn to live more in the moment? So on that drive home? You know, our mind's a blank canvas?

Gatik Chaujer: 53:32

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's the purpose of life, isn't it? To figure that out?

Daniel Franco: 53:39

Big question.

Gatik Chaujer: 53:41

yeah, it's a big question. But, you know, I learned this technique. And it was one of the triggers for me, to me and Sandra to stop transform me 10 years back. So about 12 years back, I was heading, global training for large American IT company, 12 years back, and it was a different person back then. And my CEO, who I reported to back then sent me off to California to attend a nine day leadership workshop. It was called personal mastery. By a company, I hugely respect Lal learning as leadership. 90 program on personal mastery. I was like, wow, really? That's a lot. And I went there, because my CEO said, you know, we send leaders to that program, and they apparently come back transformed. I don't know what the hell these guys do. But I want you to my learning head, I want you to go and figure out what the hell these guys are doing and see if you can recreate that magic. As a right. I'm your guy. I'll do you know. And those were the times where, you know, I had started, a lot of ego had started creeping into my little heads. And I had gotten a few promotions and stuff had happened and I thought that you know, I know leadership. I know personal mastery. So I went with this huge chip on my shoulder. And within the first two, three days, all the chips were broken. I was there for nine days, Daniel, we were 70 people in a room from different parts of the world, from CEOs to social workers, and huge bunch of people, 70 people, and they were 15 coaches. So first of all, I was not familiar with this format. 70 people in one room 15 coaches, I was used to 20 people in one room, and one trainer, and the trainer's got a slideshow. Yeah, there was no slideshow. There were 20 video cameras like these all around the room, everybody's sitting, and the 15 coaches, and there's conversations and there's challenges and this conversation, and they're challenging you they're calling you out. And you're speaking up, and you're breaking down. And then you speak and you break down and you speak and you break down. And then after a point of time you don't speak you're just breaking down, because you're just discovering so much about yourself that you never knew or you never went, right. So it was deeply transformational process. And in that process I learned as a as a as a recipient, it transformed me I quit smoking, I was a smoker for 15 years of my life. Day three, I just quit smoking like that. Day five, I quit alcohol. I just quit alcohol. I started on call again when I moved to Australia. Alright, I've got to do some wines here. But yeah, but it's very different, right? Because now I just have that occasional drink maybe once once in a while. But the point is that quitting smoking, quitting alcohol is starting to run big decisions in my life. And I came back and spoke to my CEO. And I said, You know what, I'm quitting. I'm going to build this leadership academy, but we're going to quit and because I've just figured out what I want to do for the rest of my life. So that was actually the trigger for transform me. But the point I'm making is that I learned one of the techniques I learned in addition to CBT, which you're perhaps familiar with cognitive behavioral therapy Island principles of RBT, Rational Emotive behavior therapy by Dr. Albert Ellis. And I experienced that and I got so curious about it, that I went deeper into it, I got enrolled in some courses on T group to understand that human psychology and the question around why do we have these beliefs, right, Rational Emotive behavior therapies? You know, it really boils down to the rational and irrational beliefs that we all hold and how they keep playing up. And the fact that many of us don't know how to challenge them. Because we've ever been taught. Right, and I personally believe that that needs to start coming up in the educational system as well. So we do all of this because of so many beliefs sitting in our head, which are sometimes so irrational, but we just don't know how to challenge them. So when we do the work that we do we get people to start challenging some of those beliefs like we've done for ourselves, because that's what transformation is about. Yeah. How do you challenge those beliefs that you've been holding for 20 years, without any basis? And form new, more flexible, more empowering beliefs? So yeah.

Daniel Franco: 57:59

How do we like, you know, I'm, I know that everyone's on a different journey. Yeah. Everyone's different points. But where does the Where where is the common start point? For people who are looking to transform?

Gatik Chaujer: 58:20

Yeah. There's no short answer to this. But I can share one thing that's really helped me personally and out a lot of my clients. And it's from a book called shameless happiness, by Wilbur Ross, Shameless, Shameless, happiness, happiness. Isn't that beautiful title? Really? Yeah, shameless happiness by Wilbur Ross. And the book is based on our EBT rational motivated therapy, like I spoke to you about, and it's an ebook, by the way, so any of the readers have listeners listening in, you can just type it on. It's a free PDF, download just about 20 pages, and it's really good. What he talks about is to begin to challenge your beliefs and have more empowering beliefs and be more happier and so on and so forth. What's the start point is what you asked me Daniel, and the start point is one word. Acceptance. Right. And he talks about way beautifully. In his book, he talks about the three levels of acceptance, right, he says, unconditional self acceptance. Unconditional others acceptance, and unconditional world acceptance. Powerful. Now, for example, in each of these, there are three statements or three beliefs that you've got to start inserting, because what's a belief it's basically a statement that you've written in your brain with a permanent mark. That's a belief. Belief is a statement that you've kind of picked up a permanent marker, shoved it through your your, into your brain and written that Amen. You know, I am not good enough. I suck at relationships, whatever you've read. So these three levels of acceptances are new beliefs that you form or that you start telling new stories that you're telling yourself. Right? It's really that, for example, in unconditional, I don't remember all of them by heart but in unconditional self acceptance, one of the statement one of the three statements that you've got to say to yourself that you've got to tell the story is and sustainment that goes something like this. I will make mistakes from time to time. But no, okay, let me tell you the other one that I just remembered. It says that I am as good and as bad as anybody else in this world. And I accept myself for who I am, right. So that's one, unconditional others acceptance, the one that I love the most, which I struggled to and still struggle to is that people are going to mistreat me from time to time and break my trust from time to time. And that is life. And I struggled with that even today, right? And unconditional acceptance is again something about, you know, just accepting things. So to me, a good start point is to start reframing. Reframing, so they say, Yeah, because, you know, I use this analogy to tell people that, you know, a belief is a statement that you've written in your brain with a permanent marker, and you can't erase it, you can only replace it. So if you want to let go of something you will get something else in. And you gotta keep reminding yourself of that. So yeah, and it's, it's, it's a bunch of other things that you need to do, but it is certainly possible.

Daniel Franco: 1:01:49

Yeah. Can you iterate it? Sort of erase it? Suppose it's just improving the belief? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I say improving, you have more knowledge, or experience? Definitely beliefs changes slightly.

Gatik Chaujer: 1:02:04

Sorry, is that a question? Yeah. Was that

Daniel Franco: 1:02:05

Is that so? You said? You can't erase it? Yeah. But you can iterate it.

Gatik Chaujer: 1:02:12

You can, of course. And that's my way of just using an analogy to help people understand that. If you've identified a belief of yours that's holding you back. That's the first step. Many of us are not even aware of a belief that's holding us back, right? Once you get aware of the belief, people are struggling with okay, how do I get rid of this belief? How do we get rid of this? And ask them to ask themselves this question that what would you rather believe? Ask yourself that? Yeah. What would you rather want to write? In your head? You know, and can you then have rituals and processes to remind and hydrate that?

Daniel Franco: 1:02:56

Powerful stuff?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:02:58

We went a little deep there.

Daniel Franco: 1:02:59

That's good. Now, let's come back up the rabbit hole slightly. When we talk about leadership in this space, then yeah, right. Because, you know, again, we talk about storytelling, listening. Self awareness, the ability to lead in itself is a tough gig. Right? Because majority of it is working on yourself, and then working on the ability to seek outcomes and hold people accountable. And all the above, what is your thoughts on? What is the most challenging thing towards leaders today? Or what? Sorry, let me rephrase it. What is your thoughts on the most challenging, challenging, challenging aspects of leadership that latest face today,

Gatik Chaujer: 1:03:47

loneliness, which drives everything else? Yeah, and a lot of it, loneliness, not having the right advisors not having the right mentors, coaches, not adding enough people that you can speak to or pinking, all of the above. It's one of the biggest challenges of leadership, the belief that I'm out here alone. And I need to solve for this by myself. And that pressure that we put on ourselves, and by the way, make no mistake in saying all of this, I am struggling as a leader in many realms of my own leadership on a daily basis, right, and I'm experimenting, I'm taking risks, I'm succeeding, I'm failing, all of that is happening, right. Because of the process that I that I, that I go through, I, you know, for me, it's and the number of people that I've spoken to and coached I think it's really about wanting to solve for everything, wanting to do everything. I speak to leaders in the saying I don't have the time and you know, it's just too much pressure. And you know, I really can't change at this point of time and this this, this so much of that resistance, that's coming from that sense of being by yourself, right. So that to me is one big one.

Daniel Franco: 1:05:07

Again. Again, I think it's a story that you tell yourself, right? I, I had a profound moment not long ago, within my own business, when we're growing at a quite a rapid rate, which is exciting. You know, things are things are going well, and the podcast is going well and all the above, right? But, but my mindset still hasn't caught up from four years ago, when we set up the business. Yeah, it's like Daniel does everything that is no one else to do it, I just have to do everything. And you know, I've got my business partner, Michelle. So it's Daniel and Michelle do everything we just, this is how we get it done. Right. And now all of a sudden, we've got some, you know, really amazing people in the in certain skill sets, which are far superior than mine. But yet, there's this element of me thinking I still have to do everything. And it was, was sitting in the other room, probably a couple of weeks back. And, you know, talking strategy, you know, some high level conversation. And I almost started freaking out and thinking about how are we going to get all this done? You know, who's going to be doing this? Like, it was all in my plan? Yeah. And it was, you know, the anxiety creeping in. He's like, this is a lot to do how, and then it wasn't till everyone in the room just sat back like, then we're here. Yeah, we're here for you. We're here to help you. Wait, this is this. And it was like, it just knocked me for six. But in a really good way. It was like, Ha, yeah. Yes, you're right. Right. And you're probably better doing it than me. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not. And so I put this story in myself that I was lonely. And yeah. And I was the one that had to do it all. And it was just take the blinkers off almost.

Gatik Chaujer: 1:06:57

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Daniel Franco: 1:06:59

And so I understand the loneliness piece, because there's this element that you don't want to share too much. You don't want to get too emotional. You don't want to become too vulnerable. You don't you know, all these sorts of things, which then go well, I've actually then got no one to speak to. Yeah. So what how do you combat that as a leader?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:07:26

I know you are. And I know we are huge fans of Brene. Brown, and the work that she's done, and the work that she does. For me, and for us, Daniel, the the key is to help leaders to become more and more authentic about who they are. Right. So I've tried to connect the dots here. What does that loneliness do? So we're looking at loneliness from a position of sadness, perhaps, but loneliness also leads to a sense of ego. And that's what I want to talk about, because feeling that leaders feeling that they have to do it by themselves, and I'm alone, and I'm doing this, and that's where the ego starts creeping in. That's where it starts becoming that I that's number one. And when it starts becoming that, I, I go back to that one statement, I send my driver, how does my behavior impact others, that starts changing, that I'm a leader who's operating a lot from that I and I'm not aware of how my behavior is impacting the people around me. And I start creating that culture. And that's when the stock gets getting kind of messy for for for for for many leaders. But the key really is helping leaders become more authentic in the way they think of themselves and the way they operate in the way they behave and the way they have conversations. So asking for help for example, you know, such a beautiful thing asking for help. I often when I'm coaching ask people I said when is the last time you ask somebody for help as a leader, authentically, when is unhealthy is not hey, I need this report done by tomorrow. No, no, no, no, you know what I mean? Right? And when I asked this question, I often draw blank from many leaders faces right so you don't right. So when is the last time you had a neck down conversation with your people? So when we do our labs, we talk about neck up conversations and neck down conversations and you know what that means right leg up conversations is all transactional all cognitive make down is really connecting, truly connecting. How often did you do that? How often did you ask people for feedback on you? What do you mean I get feedback because he get feedback. But you asked for it. Right? Don't I? Have you walked up to a team member and say, hey, you know, I want to have a chat with you sit down, you know, I'm trying to do this. I'm trying to improve, right? Can you tell me how you're experiencing me? Have you ever done that? Right? So these are aspects. And you rightly said, it's about, you know, building that muscle of authenticity and vulnerability and seeing that vulnerability as a strength. It's about seeking, rather than getting. It's about taking action, right? Correct. It's not about waiting for feedback to come my way. So. And, you know, so often, when we're doing a transform the lab, we sit down, and people start having conversation and start sharing either feedback or start deep diving, and they just break down because they know it. They know. Right? And it's just, it's been there, it just comes up to the surface. And that's the other thing. How often do you release? Yeah. Right.

Daniel Franco: 1:11:07

So everyone needs a release valve?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:11:09

Absolutely. So it's, it's a bunch of those things. Really, Daniel?

Daniel Franco: 1:11:17

The, what I mean, what you said there, again, comes back a lot to your own personal self development. Yeah. And you would say, time and time again, and you say you're drawing blanks from these leaders. And not being able to respond, they haven't asked themselves these questions. They haven't asked their team these questions. They haven't even thought about asking their team these questions. Big things. This is, this is a big reason why I got into business. And I remember it very clearly, it was one of I was working for an organization. And we had an external consultant, they came in to do a big piece of work, who is now my business partner. Ah, and I remember when we were having our first conversations, my frustration, was the lack of desire for leaders to want to improve themselves so that they could lead people. Yeah, I was infuriated. Yeah. How did people get in these leadership positions when they don't even work? Like, they just clearly don't know how to lead people who watch just because they're technically great. And I think that for me, it struck a big chord, because I consider myself a generalist moreso than a specialist, right. And so I was really frustrated thinking, I can get shit done, I can make things move, I can bring people on for a journey. These people are so caught up in themselves. And it was really I was really sort of outspoken about it. So I guess the question I'm asking you here is, how do we help people who are in leadership roles who have been promoted? Because they're technically great at their role, and or they've, you know, they've fallen into a leadership position, because there's no one else around? Or they've served the most years? Or whatever it might be? How do we help them understand that they are now leading people and need to understand so first, it's like, you know, when you're in the aeroplane the airplanes going down, put the gas mask, put this on the gas mask, with the oxygen, hold it on, put the oxygen mask on their face, first write, protect one before before, before helping the others and the others because you can only help others if you understand what it is, you know, and how do we help that message? Get out there?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:13:51

Yeah, yeah, I think that's a that's a, that's a question that we've struggled with as well. And that's a question that I think many of us focus on. Couple of views on that. Not really an ounce, a couple of views on that one. I've reached the point, Daniel, where I've realized that you can't really help people who don't want to be helped. Right? And

Daniel Franco: 1:14:18

the lesson that's taking the longest to learn for me

Gatik Chaujer: 1:14:21

I agree. And for me, as well, and I'm still learning it. I mean, I still try to, you know, sometimes Sandra and I or Vivek and I, or my colleagues and I will talk you know, how do we do this? How do we explain to him that this leaders got it? And then we've got to take a step back and say, Look, we don't have to do anything. Right. So that's part of it. But the other thing is we've taken it upon ourselves to become catalysts. That's the word. So transform, yes, we've taken it upon ourselves to be catalysts in that process, and we do that with our clients. So the the question you're asking me He's often questions that are in different ways opposed to us by CEOs of companies who are getting frustrated with how they're seeing their leaders be. And if they are in a space of better awareness, then it's a similar conversation that how do I get my leaders to realize that, you know, it's not about them, and they need to do this, yada, yada, yada. And we say to them, Look, we can't, we can't do that we can't get your horse to the water, right? You know what I mean. But here's what we can do. We can get them interested in a process, we can get them together. And we can show them the mirror. And we can shake them up, we can do that. We can show them the mirror, we can shake them up. And we can do it in a sensitive manner. Because that's our skill. That's the process that we follow. So we can show them the mirror, we can shake them up. And we can do that with sensitivity. What that means is, we can take them through a process of lab, where you get them in, don't tell them much about what's happening, we will take it from there, it's about the hair, in my experience, helping them see how their behavior is impacting others, and how they are coming across and rarely show them the mirror and shake them up. But we'll do it gently. Or if you tell us we will not do it yet. Which means we will do our diagnostics. And we'll get a sense of how ready your team is to go deep to be challenged. And if you feel they're not will be quite gentle if you feel they are will push. So we use techniques like pushing, cajoling, driving, encouraging. infuriating, to get people's real selves out, and then put it up on a plate for them to explore and say alright, what do you want to do about this? 80% of the people will get on the bandwagon and say, Alright, I want to fix this. So that's a catalyst 20%. Now, you know already, and that's fine. And that's fine. That's that's what they choose for the seeds been planted though. Yeah, the seeds have been planted, and maybe they do it. Maybe they don't maybe they're the stage in their life where they don't, you know, when they don't feel it's worth the effort and the investment to go through that journey. And that's fine as well. Yeah. But for us, it's really been looking at it as being catalysts to that process. And that's what we tell people, because that's the most

Daniel Franco: 1:17:23

This might sound like the strangest question that you can do. you've ever been asked, but what does the mirror look like?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:17:30

My mirror?

Daniel Franco: 1:17:31

Well, the mirror that you're showing these people? What? What? And you know, the obvious answer is they're on reflection. But what is when you say we hold the mirror up to him? What does that mean? What does that mean?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:17:47

So I have to explain the entire process of transforming labs to you. But really what we do, Daniel is we work with a group of leaders, a group of people really not leaders. for a day or two, in what we call, unstructured group process work, which means there's no agenda, other than helping them become better. Simple. There's no slides, zero slides, there's no laptops, there's nothing, there's no table, there's no chairs, this is only chairs. But we actually done it without just sitting on the ground as well. But we don't do role plays, we do real plays. Which means we ask people what's happening with you right now? Why are you looking at this person like this? Okay. He said something and I saw smoke there, what's happening there? You want to talk about it? There's no, no, I don't want to talk about it. Okay, so you want to run away from this as well? How does that working out for you even get angry and say, you know, what do you mean? Are you speak to me like that? So okay, so how are you feeling right now? I'm feeling this stuff. Okay. I'm glad to hear you expressing your emotions for the first time. And let's talk more about that. So it's, it's a process, it's really a process that that unpeel, the layers. And something that's one technique that we use, sometimes we use a lot of empathy as well. The skill that we have is, I spoke about the listening, the receiving the observing, and therefore the skill that we've developed over these years is the ability to sense what is likely to work for somebody would pushing work with this person would encouragement, work with empathy work, and then using that, and leveraging that using the strength of the group and getting them to express getting them to experiment. And once they've got to a place where they've said that oh, okay, yeah, I struggled with my anger. Let's experiment. You know, who are you feeling angry with right now? Here and now? For real? No real place? Yeah, I'm feeling upset with Joel there. All right. This facility that concerts very, very real. And sometimes when we tell our clients about this, they say, you know, that sounds like yeah, That sounds like a ticking time bomb kind of thing. Not at all. Because we know how to temper it down how to take it out. We've never in the last 10 years had a situation because you know, people get it. Eight out of 10 people get it. So yeah, that's that's what the mirror would look like. Right? We've had situations where people have lead us to leaders, Daniel, who have not been speaking to each other properly for the last three years, because of an email one of them wrote to the other three years back, you know what I mean? resentments are horrible. Absolutely. And they hadn't done what we call closing the loop. And then just creating that safe space, for them to have that dialogue and closing the loop changes everything for this organization. And the two teams literally changed everything. And that's powerful self work that people can do. If they just get that trigger. They don't need everything. They don't need people to take them to the end, you do often need just that capitalist. Yeah. And the rest of you've got it? Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:21:01

Is there a difference between leadership transformation and personal transformation?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:21:08

Not at all. Not at all. In my view, there's nothing no difference at all. One leads to the other one feeds from the other. Every person is a leader, you're not a leader by a title, first of all, so everybody's a leader. And everything starts from yourself, we call ourselves transform me not transform you because it's, it's all from within. So personal transformation is that even storytelling, it's about personal. It's about the stories you tell yourself of this code that I say that the stories you tell yourself, are the stories that stop you from telling the stories you must. So even there, it's about personal transformation. So absolutely the same.

Daniel Franco: 1:21:52

What does transformation mean to you? Like, so? If, if you're going through working with a group of leaders, you're working with a team, you're doing your own self work, whatever it might be? Is transformation, this big huge lightbulb moment? Or is it an iterative process? You know, when? And rightly so when people think of transformation, they think of the caterpillar turned butterfly, right? Likely, it's this beautiful movement, that's and change that is so elegant. But what's going on in that cocoon is not so elegant, right? And I think that's the the question I'm asking is, can you be transformed over time? Or is it these light bulb moments? You know, like, when you went to the coaching course, and you their 90 day course, and you came away different? Is that what people search for?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:22:58

So I'm gonna share my take on this, right? And evolution is a slow process, over a period of time, the impact of which is felt very differently. So we all evolve, right? And transformation for me is about the impact that gets created. But evolution is about progression. Transformation is really about the impact on yourself on people around you, right? So it's, it's definitely larger, to my mind, but it doesn't need to be larger in the way it's done. I'm sure you've heard or read atomic habits. Lovely book, right? Great concept. I've read part of it, Sandra swears by it. And those habits, those rituals, those tiny shifts can lead to big transformation as well. So transformation, the word transform literally means altering shape. That's what it means right altering shape. And for us transformation is about altering the shape of your cognitive emotive being. Right. So we all know about neuroplasticity, we can change the way we are wired. And you know, our brain functions the way we behave. That's transformation. Somebody who is somebody who's afraid, petrified of public speaking and suddenly goes up and makes a good talk not suddenly over a period of time is able to make a great talk. That's transformation. A person who has been scared off having challenging conversations with people, becomes the CEO of a company and now needs to fire people or hire people and have tough conversations and is able to do that that's transformation. Because you're changing the very being of what you believed you are you can be your cannot be. And when you shift that that's transformation, right? Do people want that? I don't know. Some do. Some do. But very few are willing to invest. Or take the step. And when I say invest, I don't mean money. I mean the energy. Yeah, because it takes a fair bit of energy to do that.

Daniel Franco: 1:25:14

Right. And there's a bit of fear about it.

Gatik Chaujer: 1:25:18

A huge time. That's a great point. That's a great point, big time fear about, you know, what if I do this, and I fail, I'm not even good at what I do already. So well, how does that work out for me and stuff like that? Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:25:32

You mentioned earlier that, for transformation, to take place, where you alluded to the transformation take place, you have to be invested, you have to be you have to be passionate about it. I can't remember the exact word used. There has to be an element of desire for the transformation to take place. Sure. And commonly in the world right now. And we would all know many people who are living like this, you know, they've got a great job, beautiful home, great friends. But just going through the motions, coming home, having dinner, watching some Netflix, Groundhog Day, rinse, repeat. And there's not that there's anything wrong with that at all. But it's when the comments that come from those people, towards me, and I'm speaking on conversations that I have, and I can only speak of this is where they are. I'm just I'm bored. Yeah, I'm not connected. I'm not getting what I need. So I guess the question is, when you talk about transformation, does it need to be a job? Can it be hobbies? Can it be beautiful question, I love it. Yeah. Like, what does that look like?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:26:57

I'm gonna share with you one word that I love connected to what you said. And that's my view on what it looks like. And that is towards active experimentation. active experimentation. What did we enjoy as kids, different things? experimenting. And active experimentation means the act of seeking those experiments. People who are living unfulfilled lives and not sure what they want to do. And I consider myself fortunate and blessed when I say that there's nothing else that I'd rather do in my life, right? For the rest of my life ready. And as I'm in the chat with my daughter, who's 16 Now, and she was 13, when we just moved to Australia, and you know, we're talking about what she wanted to do in life, and she wasn't sure as any teenager would be. And, you know, in the conversation, I ended up saying something to her. And she really loved it. She wrote it down. She said, I'm gonna keep it. And then she wrote it down. And she made a nice little blackout for me and said, when I said to her in the moment that I said this, I said, experiment with your passions to discover your purpose. Experiment with your passions to discover your purpose. Because you don't know what some people will live feeling unfulfilled. The question I would ask them is, what's your passion? This eight hour? How does it make a difference? I like playing the guitar. I say, okay, when was the last time you did it? Three years back. Okay, do it again. No, but I can be I'm an I'm the CEO of a company you want me to stand on, run them all and play the guitar and get some money? I'll do what he asked me to do. I just played, just see what comes up to you. Because when you're in that state, what comes to you is very different. What else would you like to do? Oh, I used to like doing this. When's the last time you experiment, experiment with your passions. And even beyond that? I was coaching somebody the other day, not coaching. We were in a group lab. This is back in India recently. I went there. I went there after two and a half years, by the way. Yeah, a long time. And this lady recently promoted into a vice president level or something. And in the lab, she's talking about, you know, the people I was friends with, while my colleagues and now become become a vice president, so they're not my friends anymore. And the people who are vice presidents are not my friends, so I'm just feeling so lonely, because I don't have any friends. And I asked her this question. I said, When is the last time you made a new friend? 35 years old. She said in college. I see. Wow. What is the last time you made a friend? Right? So experiment, active experimentation. So for people who are looking for purpose, looking for more fulfillment, experiment with your passions, that's a good start and then experiment with other things. Yeah. So that's the key, I reckon.

Daniel Franco: 1:29:54

Become Case in point for that, right. I'll run a podcast.

Gatik Chaujer: 1:29:57

That's so true. Actually, that is so true man.

Daniel Franco: 1:30:00

I run a business and a podcast. The podcast for me was really this is a great example. Yeah. You're I was asking the question, What do I love doing? And I love learning. I love talking. I love sharing experiences. The only thing missing from this conversation was maybe a glass of wine. But

Gatik Chaujer: 1:30:22

want to get something Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:30:27

And so I started experimenting with it, you know, I went out and bought the, all the equipment. And I sat on the shelf, and I didn't do anything. And it wasn't until we hired Gabriella as part of the team that we said, Hey, Gabs, can you look into this for us? And she set it all up? Beautiful, right. And there's a lot of me that goes, you know, I could have done that myself and whatnot. And you know, I shouldn't have to rely on someone else. But I think the point is, that just the action of buying it started, the process just went out and bought. And the first if you listen back, the first episodes are horrible. I like that. Like, from my interview style, the topic of conversations, my approach to it. I feel like I've grown in in time, and you learn along the way. And so when people say, Yeah, I'm gonna go back to listen to the first No, don't listen to the last ones. And how long? How long is it? I think we've done what, 70 or 80 episodes now. So it's been about two years. Wow, that we've been running this. Yeah. Which is? So it's got some legs, which is really great. Yeah. The, I think the point is that, even within, and I'm passionate about business. So even though I'm running my own world in the business sense, I still have time for passion projects. Yeah. In fact, it's actually complimented the business so beautifully. Yeah. Because we're connecting with great people. And we're learning and we're working together. And we're building networks,

Gatik Chaujer: 1:32:08

and you're having fun by doing it and have fun with it. Yeah, so no, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. Good on you.

Daniel Franco: 1:32:15

just conscious of time. I just want to know what what and before we jump into the quickfire questions, one last question like What is what is transform? Me, like your business transformed me? What makes? What makes that world? What makes your heart sing about the world that work that you're doing? Because you said, I love what I do. I can't see myself do any thinking, I can't see myself doing anything else. I'm passionate about what I do. This is my purpose. You've said all that throughout this conversation. But what is it?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:32:52

I'll tell you? You alluded to that example, a while back about a caterpillar turning into a butterfly. Everybody's heard that story, if you've seen visuals. How many people have seen that process? Live?

Daniel Franco: 1:33:10

Yeah, how many

Gatik Chaujer: 1:33:11

how many people have actually seen a caterpillar become a cocoon, go through that process and become a butterfly, few people would have very few people. That's what fills my soul every single day being able to be part of that journey, and being able to see that. And seeing that for others, because I started by saying to you that that's what my driver is enabling people. And I've chosen this as my vehicle to enable and help people in being able to see that transformation. And be a small part of that process. And be one of the few people who can actually see that. That's what, that's what feeds our soul for. And that's true for each one of us. I think that's, you know, it's so silly. We were talking about it in our team meeting the other day, we signed a new contract with a client and there are a few foods and people say Yeah, whoo. And one of us gets a testimonial from a client who's caught crying in the video and says, You've changed my life, you've changed my team's life. And we celebrate that for 30 minutes. That for us is real moment of celebration. So yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:34:21

yeah, impact,

Gatik Chaujer: 1:34:23

impact, absolutely impact.

Daniel Franco: 1:34:27

I love it. Beautiful. We're gonna jump into some quickfire questions which cannot be met. They don't generally go quick fire, but we this is scaring work, either. Already, brace yourself. They're not that good. They're just I like to use this as a way of just getting into the inner workings of the brain. But the very first few are very basic. So what are you reading right now? You've mentioned a whole bunch of books and we'll put them in the show notes. But what are you reading right now?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:34:55

So right now, I'm reading Iacocca, Lee Iacocca. autobiography, yeah, Christ I've read that and I'm halfway through and I'm loving it but I have to tell you this this year I started off getting back to my so we did a we do a vision board exercise, Sandra started that exercise for family. All four of us sit down on New Year's and create a vision board and the mind was to read a book every month. January I read four books. Well, February, I read three, so it's coming down. I'm getting to that one, but I started off pretty good. So

Daniel Franco: 1:35:24

I all as you meet your quota. Was that as long as you meet your quota?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:35:28

I did. I love Shoe Dog by Phil. I just loved it. I love green lights by Matthew McConaughey. That was good. That was really good. Have you read Will wide read villas? Well, I found which was nice, but I preferred green lights. As I listened to it or I read it. I didn't do the audio.

Daniel Franco: 1:35:48

Okay, so reels. Audio is brilliant.

Gatik Chaujer: 1:35:52

It's a great story. It's a great, it's wonderful his own assessment of his life and his family and his wife and it's beautiful

Daniel Franco: 1:35:58

actually. McConaughey greenlights audio is amazing, too, would be

Gatik Chaujer: 1:36:01

because I've heard a lot more about his audio, then we'll Yeah. So yeah, that's what I'm reading right now. I'm reading. Well, I'm reading this one. Sorry, Iacocca. And I've already got Sam Waltons autobiography on the side as the next one. I don't know this. Yeah, I just feel like reading autobiography. Yes. I also run read. Elon Musk's biography. What's it called now?

Daniel Franco: 1:36:22

That Ashley Vance one? Is that the Yeah, the

Gatik Chaujer: 1:36:24

Ashley Vance one. Yeah. I forget the name, what it's called. But it's this mask or something. But yeah, so I did that. So yeah, that's what I'm doing right now. Brilliant. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:36:34

What's one self development book. And let's target this towards becoming a better leader. What's one self development book that you could recommend?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:36:54

You know, one name comes instantly to mind. But it's an old book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Classic. And it's just so easy to implement. It's just so easy to implement those seven habits. And the impact that they can create for you can be phenomenal. Especially the circle of influence and circle of concern for me. That's really powerful. So I'd say that one. Yeah, that's my Good. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:37:19

Having six. Was that habit? Six.

Gatik Chaujer: 1:37:22

I see that right there. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So

Daniel Franco: 1:37:25

yeah, we're very big. Yeah, it's, I think it's the book that really was fundamental in my own growth. Yeah. and personal development. And, you know, like we alluded to before the putting the mask on yourself first, right?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:37:38

Yeah. Yeah. And that and while you were talking, I just realized even Good to Great columns. That was great. Yeah, that is brilliant. And, obviously, Simon Sinek start with the why. So these would be the maybe the three top ones.

Daniel Franco: 1:37:51

Yeah. Beautiful. Do you listen to any other podcasts or anything? Other than this one? Obviously?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:37:58

I don't know. No, I don't. But I want to get on to it.

Daniel Franco: 1:38:01

Yeah. There's some really great ones out. Yeah. I'll recommend a few later. What's we actually we talked, you said, your Brene Brown fan. And we talked about this earlier, but I'll ask it again. What's one lesson that is taking the longest to learn?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:38:18

So earlier, we said I can never change people, when it's my need to change. Yeah. And that's, that's, it's I can never change people. But it's my need to change people. I think that's it's not taken longer. I think I'm still learning but I don't think I've completely crossed that bridge. I still get into that mode sometimes. But yeah, I think that's the one.

Daniel Franco: 1:38:38

Is it? Because you can see the forest from the trees, and you just want what's best for these people? Yeah, I think so hurry up and get there.

Gatik Chaujer: 1:38:46

I think so You said it. Right. I think that's what it is. I think it's it's about this belief, right. And our mission is that we believe that everybody's got gotten in, got it in them to be the best versions of themselves. And when you can see that, and when you see that others can see that. You know, I get frustrated.

Daniel Franco: 1:39:04

So now I just want to move the wall out of your way. Like yeah,

Gatik Chaujer: 1:39:07

yeah, but I've worked a fair bit on it. So it's a lesson that I've learned,

Daniel Franco: 1:39:11

but it's one that deals with you. Yeah. I hate if you could invite three people to dinner. And we're going to assume that Sandra, and your kids are already there. So three people Yeah. to dinner. Who would they be

Gatik Chaujer: 1:39:28

together? Yeah. Ah, I'd love to have my dad. Yeah, but not with Elon Musk. That would be a weird combination. Right? Even might be I might make one story right. Or maybe it would Yeah. Because I don't know. So. Yeah, no, I want to answer it together to three people. I'd love to have dinner with separately dad. Musk. Yeah. Just these two actually, just these two that I'd really like to have a call conversation over dinner with. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:40:02

Musk is is on my list as well. Yeah. Is he just Yeah. Like he's eccentric and strange and but just doing things that are changing. Yes. When you talk about him. Yeah, it's just

Gatik Chaujer: 1:40:20

amazing. And if you if you if you You've obviously read about his backstory as a child and yeah, that's transformation. That's beautiful. So yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:40:29

What's some of the best advice you've ever received?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:40:33

Oh, I think I shared that with you. It's definitely this one. I keep reminding myself. Where you want to take a decision. Listen to everybody, but do your shit. Yeah. Do what your heart tells you. Just listen to you listen to your inner voice more than you listen to the outer voices. Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:40:49

yeah. Yeah. If you had a time machine, where would you go?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:40:56

To Hulu. Back to the Future is one of my favorite movies. By the way. I would love to relive my teenage years. I would love to relive my teenage years. I'd love to relive the 90s Yeah, yeah. I'd love to relive that music in that time. And yeah, I'm sorry. I'm not coming up with a goal to change the world. But we live I'd love to relive my own childhood. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:41:24

So Connor asked me when I asked him he thinking this could make its way into the quickfire questions because it was actually quite. It was I thought was a great question. So if your house is on fire, and your family and your kids and your pets are all safe, outside what's the one thing you would run back in sight for?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:41:50

AZ dad's photograph? Yeah. Easy. Absolutely. Yeah. Nothing else.

Daniel Franco: 1:41:56

Yeah, that's a good question. I'm gonna I think I'm gonna add that it's actually a good question. It is.

Gatik Chaujer: 1:42:01

It is a good question. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:42:04

Thanks Connor. If you have one super hero power, what would it be

Gatik Chaujer: 1:42:20

the ability to shift others emotions on command right, so I got this at this hand.

Daniel Franco: 1:42:37

Iron rain.

Gatik Chaujer: 1:42:40

I like that. I like that. I like that pose. And then I'm gonna move sorry. I'm gonna get you to a little bit to frustration. Yes, perfect.

Daniel Franco: 1:42:49

Good. That's coming back to your your lesson as long as the learner. Do you need a shoot or a cape for anything?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:42:58

I wouldn't mind the Doctor Strange. Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:43:02

really? And last but not least tell us your best dad joke. Oh. Oh, God.

Gatik Chaujer: 1:43:11

I don't know about dad jokes. I'll tell you. I'll try and do a knock knock. That right. Okay, let's do a knock knock. Hang on. Let me get this right. I always mess this up. I always mess this up. Okay. Knock knock. Who's there? Interrupting cow

Daniel Franco: 1:43:34

interrupt

Gatik Chaujer: 1:43:41

my daughter does this with me. She's so much better than me.

Daniel Franco: 1:43:44

Well, Dad This. This. Thank you. Very good. Thank you so much for your time today getting kids. It's been wonderful. It's been a deep conversation we went through into all these different nooks and crannies and just really appreciate your I think advice and obviously mentorship in that space. You you are making an impact in in people's lives and something you should be very proud of. And your story is great. And your ability to tell the story is profound. Somebody who knows a little bit about storytelling, I kind of break up the way you go about it. And I love it. And I'm still not there yet. And it's something that I could maybe I could pick your brain about moving on percent happy to help happy to help. Where can we find you? Where can people get in contact with you?

Gatik Chaujer: 1:44:30

LinkedIn is the best source I reckon. So just type in my name and shouldn't be too many people with the same first name, last name.

Daniel Franco: 1:44:38

So GATIK CHAUJER

Gatik Chaujer: 1:44:43

GATIK CHAUJER

Daniel Franco: 1:44:46

beautiful. Yeah. And the business is transformed me check them out. They're doing some wonderful things and you got your YouTube page and you hit on there as well. So check it out. And if you want to get in touch reach out to Gatik but other than that, thanks again and we'll catch you next time.

Gatik Chaujer: 1:45:02

Thanks so much for having me over.

Daniel Franco: 1:45:04

No worries. See you guys. Thanks for listening to the podcast or you can check out the show notes if there was anything of interest to you and find out more about us at Synergy iq.com.au. I am going to ask though, if you did like the podcast, it would absolutely mean the world to me if you could subscribe, rate and review. And if you didn't like it, that's alright too. There's no need to do anything. Take care guys. All the best.

Synergy IQ: 1:45:29

Thank you once again for joining us here at creating synergy. It's been great spending this time with you. Please jump onto the synergy IQ Facebook and LinkedIn page where the discussion continues after the show. Join our mailing list so you'll know what's happening next at Synergy iq.com.au. And of course don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. And if you really enjoyed it, please share it with your friends.