Synergy IQ: 0:01

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Daniel Franco: 0:19

to synergizes and welcome back to another episode of The creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco and today we have the one and only Grant Kelly on the show. In South Australian circles especially Grant is best known for owning South Australia's premier basketball team. The beloved Adelaide 36ers, Grant is also the CEO of vicinity sensors, which is a company that owns and operates some of Australia's largest retail precincts, such as Cheston in Victoria, and the Queen Victoria building in New South Wales and the DFO in Perth. Grant joined vicinity centers as CEO in January 2018, and has over 30 years of global experience in real estate investment, corporate strategy, funds management and private equity. Grant was formerly CEO at City Developments limited a Singapore based global real estate company with operations in over 20 countries. Prior to this, he was co head of Asia Pacific for Apollo Global Management, leading their real estate investment activities in the region. And in 2008, Grant founded holdfast capital limited an Asian based real estate investment firm, which was acquired by Apollo in 2010. From 2004 to 2008, Grant was CEO of Colony capital Asia, where he guided acquisition and asset management activities in Asia. Then from 2002 to 2004. He was based in New York where he was principal at colony with the responsibility for US and European investment opportunities. Grant holds a Bachelor degree from University of Adelaide and masters in Economic Sciences from London School of Economics and an MBA from the illustrious Harvard Business School. Further to being the owner and chair of the Adelaide 36ers. He's chair of the holdfast assets, a director of the shopping center Council of Australia Deputy Chair of the Board of Governors of Poultney Grammar School, a council member for the Asia Society Policy Institute, and a member of the Premier's Economic Advisory Council in South Australia. In this episode, Grant and I talked about a lot. We talked about his journey and his career and how he found himself owning the National Basketball team, the Adelaide 36ers, we talked about the key influences in his life and factors for his personal and professional success. And he dedicates a great deal of his learning and success to the amazing relationship that he has with his mother. We talked about the thoughts and traits of a great CEO. And he described to us how a remarkable and high performing team actually work together, we deep dive into performance and the areas that he places his focus on for businesses to actually be successful. Grant then provided his thoughts on how to manage family and business and he says that we can't be a workaholic, we need to prioritize family, and are something as simple as walking your dog each morning can bring a lot of joy and help you find that escape. We talked about the world of basketball and why he decided to become the owner of the Adelaide 36ers. We talked about his workload and the emotions of it all and how he has the ability to compartmentalize. We also asked him the big question of when does enough become enough? And I'm absolutely sure you want to hear the answer to that. It was an absolute pleasure talking to grant and I know that you're going to absolutely love this podcast. If you'd like to check out his profile. You can find it at Grant Kelly on LinkedIn and feel free to connect with me too. You can find me at Daniel Franco on LinkedIn. If you'd like to learn more about some of the other amazing leaders that we've had on the creating synergy podcast then be sure to jump on our website at Synergy iq.com Today you or check us out at the creating synergy podcast on all the podcast outlets. So welcome back to the creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco and I am very very excited today to have the one and only Grant Kelly on the show. Thanks grant for coming on.

Grant Kelly: 4:23

Thank you Daniel. Thanks for having me on.

Daniel Franco: 4:25

You're you're pretty well known man in the in sort of the ranks of South Australia and Australia and done some amazing things in your career. Owner of the Adelaide 36ersCEO vicinity centers doing some wonderful things there too. So can you give us a little bit of a background about your story and how you found yourself to where you are today.

Grant Kelly: 4:47

It's probably a bit serendipitous to be honest with you, Daniel, I you know, started off grew up in Adelaide went to school and university here. Obviously love the city and the culture and Yeah, just what a wonderful place it is to live. So I was overseas for about 30 years, close enough anyway, between education and work. And then in 2017, I received an offer to come back and be co vicinity centers in Melbourne, which was a wonderful opportunity, I think it was a company that was poised for, you know, a period of growth, which is indeed, transpired. And so I run have a national role. I'm based in Melbourne, but I spend a large proportion of my time here because my family here, so I guess I've been very lucky, really, with, with the way things have worked out.

Daniel Franco: 5:43

Yeah, absolutely. Can you Can we unpack sort of the start of your career and, and, and the decision to to get out of Australia really feel good about moving overseas for 30 years? It's got to be some, some pretty amazing story. I know, you went to Harvard, and you know, you did your MBA over there. Yes. Let's see, I'd love to hear your stories on your career and how you grew into these roles.

Grant Kelly: 6:07

Yeah, so the, the start of it really was 96, just finished at Adelaide Uni law school. And I went overseas to do a, what turned actually into a master's in international relations at London School of Economics. And that's where I developed probably was sent into a lifelong interest in in Public Affairs and International Affairs specifically. And I then actually moved after that quite quickly into the business world, so trained as a lawyer, but probably felt that and I was just one of those people, I suppose that had a desire to learn about the world. And I was therefore able to travel and to work at the same time. And of course, the world in 96, was just opening up. Yeah, we look at the problems today. And, you know, it's so difficult, I think, for young people, whereas I'd say my generation, we had a booming international economy, and then create a lot of job opportunities. So I came back, actually, to Sydney for a short period of time, it was then posted quickly to New Zealand. In as a management consultant, and then worked in in that capacity for a number of years, I went to Harvard, came back in a short period, after I came back, I went into investment management. And that was sort of where I really was probably less than the Asian financial circles, best nine. And so it was interesting for me to, to come back and take on more of a corporate role in Australia. But yeah, but lived and worked in a number of places. I mean, a break it down roughly as follows just to give you a ballpark, but I think I had a combined total of about five years in the US about three in the UK, and then close on 20. In, in the in Asia. So that was sort of the rough split. And yeah, I was lucky enough to make great friendships and have great opportunities in each of those places.

Daniel Franco: 8:16

Brilliant. I didn't want to ask you a political question. But something is coming to mind. And we've seen in, in the media lately, previously, with the previous government, talking about people staying in South Australia, we're having this influx of growth, and your story is typically the opposite, which was the old story where people would leave South Australia. Do you believe that the simple fact that you did get to go out into the world and experience these opportunities, and in all these different countries that it has set you up for success? And can you get the same success in South Australia if you just decide to stay here?

Grant Kelly: 8:55

Absolutely. I mean, I think I was just a specific person in a particular role, which was at that stage advising large corporates. And the opportunities were quite specific, and actually, frankly, quite limited. So I remember when, when I went to the company was called Booz Allen. And when they hired me, there are only four positions for fresh graduates in Australia. And I was lucky enough to get one of them that was in not adding on when I came back from London for a couple of years, and what actually happened, I think in the intervening period was that Australia grew, it's a much more different, more diverse, exciting place than it was. And indeed, I think there's there's great opportunities now to frankly, keep our kids here. And I think that'll continue you know, I think South Australia has so much to offer. All the cliches that we know about livability etc. have always been there. But what's occurred I think in the recent past has been the growth of digital, defense. Purchasing it, there's a range of roles now in things such as cyber. So a lot of the new economy that we're moving into, you know, think globally where where the world is essentially virtual means that we can actually have those global roles, but do them from South Australia. Do my partner Kirsty is a pretty good example of this. She's the sales enablement lead for a division of Microsoft, Asia Pacific. And she does it from our home in Adelaide. So, so these are sort of examples of how I think people who have real talent, great experience can actually leverage that, you know, and stay close to their, their family, and their friends, and the place they love.

Daniel Franco: 10:47

That's amazing. So why are you then when you say you're based in Melbourne? And then a year often can you be based in South Australia? Yeah,

Grant Kelly: 10:56

it's pretty, I think that the key thing is to regard you know, qf 740. Yeah. On a Monday morning, it's a bus. I mean, sort of mentally say, you know, to yourself, gee, you know, I've got to fly in and out a bit. And just treat it as a, it's just an ordinary thing. Yeah. I can get door to door in about three hours. I do frustrate the guys corners a little bit with being maybe the last Phil on the plane and the first one to sprint off at the end. But no, look, it's very doable between here in Melbourne, I think. You know, it's a one hour flight, it's pretty doable. And I make it a policy that if we have a midweek event or school event or something like that I come back for. So I treat it again as as as sort of a virtual work, workplace, you know, between Adelaide and Melbourne and, and indeed, nationally. So what's the dynamics, which works quite well? So sorry?

Daniel Franco: 11:52

The dynamics? Yes. To three to five days? Yeah. So

Grant Kelly: 11:56

I typically try to do two to three days a week in Melbourne, or in another in a non Adelaide City. And then I'll often try to do a Monday and potentially a Friday, if I can swing it. Back here in South Australia, then of course, we can see.

Daniel Franco: 12:08

Yeah, brilliant. Booz Allen, you are management consulting. We specifically, we are a consulting company. Yeah, we're specifically focused on change, enabling leaders through change program. So what we use specializing is with the strategy, finance, is that your, your core background?

Grant Kelly: 12:28

Yeah, absolutely. So it was Strategy and Finance in the main, that's what I sort of majored in, at Harvard. And it was an interesting job, because in that era, they're very limited, as I mentioned, earlier roles, but actually, the the nature of consulting was different. And I remember actually, when change management came to become, you know, quite appropriately seen as really the key to the strategy piece, but that was probably the mid 90s, to late 90s, when that really came in, it came in off the back of a lot of process reengineering and digitization of business. So I think what happened was, you know, you had essentially, guys like myself, that would be working on a three to four week strategy study. And then the client may not implement it. And what we actually came to understand was, we always saw our value as being that final report, the client saw it two years from now, the implementation, the turnaround of their business, or one year, or whatever the time horizon was, and I think, I think that therefore evolved, and the consulting profession, I think, in a certain sense, morphed into something far more focused on almost embedding yourself with your client and actually owning the outcome. Yeah. And that actually, I think, is a good thing. You know, I think oftentimes, in the old days, we were perhaps guilty of, of generating brilliant analysis that would sit on somebody's shelf. Yeah. And in fact, you learn on the journey, that what really matters is winning the hearts and minds and getting people to execute. And that was what I admire about groups like, like your own Daniel is, I think that's where the most value gets created.

Daniel Franco: 14:09

Absolutely. Right. Yeah. I mean, there's no point having a strategy without the ability to execute it. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And where do you believe that that's that early adoption and early knowledge into that world of Strategy and Finance, probably the two most critical things when it comes to being a CEO or managing director or someone who is in that C suite level? Is that helped you and set you up for the success that you are? You find yourself today?

Grant Kelly: 14:38

Great question. I mean, I think I think the I think the real, the real key to, to my success was actually having great mentors and great teams that I worked with. I know that again, is something people say I genuinely mean that I think right through life. The number one way you learn is from from observing and for being led and And then you in time become the leader. So I think it's evolving into a CEO, I had some some great role models along the way. Functionally, I mean, I think I think strategy is is important, but many functions are operations is particularly in the shopping center business is crucial. Yeah, the thing that strategic orientation gives you is perspective. So it enables you to, I think, prioritize, to set goals and targets that are meaningful. And where the financing background was really helpful was probably in a developed very deep set philosophies about business. You know, I, I think that costs need to be matched with revenues at all times, if at all possible. I think, in terms of debt management, in particular, have sort of perhaps become, I suppose, well known for advocating, you know, that the balance sheets need to be strong. I am probably a bit old school in that I believe you are always accountable 24/7 to a shareholder, no matter how large or small, and to your team and to the community. But all of these were things were lessons that actually I picked up from watching some great people inaction. And, and that was really, ultimately a, I think, what shaped my approach to being a chief executive today.

Daniel Franco: 16:26

Brilliant. We'll come back to the chief executive thing, but I want to talk about the mentors slash coaches. Yeah, Part I believe it's absolutely critical, when in fact, since I've adopted the methodology of having a mentor slash coach or real business coach, where I pay extremely good money for this, yes, I have seen my self my personal development and the business grow twofold. There's some stories that floating around about you used to sit around listening to your father and his mates, speaking. Can you talk us about how that shaped you? And then I mean, is that where you saw your, your desire to learn from others come from?

Grant Kelly: 17:05

Yeah, I mean, the story, it's a it's a funny one that's done the rounds, I suppose. But yeah, I was the I was the sort of the ball boys slash, you know, what I was called beer boy, for games with tennis that used to be at our family home, down at Sunland Park, when I was a young guy growing up and dad was a great influence. But I have to say my mom built a really successful real estate business. And, you know, I think I learned from her as much if not more than I did from my dad, and particularly from mom, I learned the power of actually. And this was, again in the 80s this was not commonplace, but So mum was a real standard bearer, the power of actually the soft skills that you you oftentimes get from, from women and also their loyalty, their time management capabilities, because they've got to juggle so much. And, frankly, also just just insights that, that sometimes, it doesn't matter if you're a man or woman you may not have and, and always have even today, gone to my parents for on major decisions, but without having passed away, mum, is somebody I talked to literally every day, to the extent that last night, I was getting my hair cut a cleaner organized, I and we live up in the city and I I mumble as soon as it gone. Oh, God and I, I just called her because she wanted to apologize, I wasn't going to stop by for our usual chat. So I think it's very important to honor your parents in many, many ways. Obviously, as a son, or daughter, you, I'm very old fashioned. I think our duty as your parents get older, but to help them as they help you. But I also believe that there's so much knowledge there. And I think sometimes we forget that. And I was an example this last night, so I called my wife and we chatted for about 20 minutes, about all sorts of things. But I take something from each of those conversations in ways that she may not even perhaps be aware of because I'm his son, but but I find her just a remarkable influence as well.

Daniel Franco: 19:20

I feel like I have to pick up my phone and call my mum.

Grant Kelly: 19:23

Do it. And you know what, you know what it's like to it's, it's, it's it's not, you know, society now is quite ageist. You know, we don't always respect wisdom. We're so connected through social media. And yeah, in fact, the digital world is a bit of a barrier to entry. For a lot of older folks, it's more important than I know you're very close to your parents. It's, it's more important than ever to actually reach for them in a more traditional sense of just dropping by picking up the phone.

Daniel Franco: 19:50

Yeah, it's funny because I feel I feel like as my life has and my career has progressed, you know, when I often started my My family and then started a business which is now doing well. And you know, that if you start floating around and you get busier, right? Yes, and you tend to forget, yeah, about the foundations that help you get there.

Grant Kelly: 20:15

100%. And it's not that you haven't, you don't still love those mentors and love those institutions that shaped you, it says that you have to honor it, you know, and, you know, I mean, I think institutions equally, funnily enough, I joined the board of my old school, and Connie Mahoney, and it's incredibly enriching. Yeah. And it, it's enriching, certainly, for me, but a hope for the school as well, because I think institutions, it's 175 years old this year, you know, that don't, by happenstance, stay around for 175 years. So there's greatness all around us, in all walks of life, it could be a footy club or whatever. But giving back to those institutions, as well as those people is very important.

Daniel Franco: 21:04

What are your thoughts on the future of education? You're out? You're in this board and in, you know, shaping the children? Yeah, for the future of tomorrow. I mean, this is a very important role. What Where are we going with,

Grant Kelly: 21:16

I think, especially the gap between strategy and implementation that we talked about earlier, I think in education, what's probably happened is we've evolved from this academic approach to classroom learning. And, and we are now actually requiring, you know, kids to actually, you know, become more practical. So, you know, one of the great initiatives that I've seen is, for example, it's in year 11, the research project, and you can do it, I think, in either year, 10, or 12, as well, which is a goes towards a student's tertiary admission, but actually requires them to, to run a project and actually deal with people in the wider community and, and, and interview them and learn from their experience. And then, and only then construct the story, the narrative. And I think that's fantastic news in my day. It's come back a long time. I mean, there wasn't there wasn't that degree of practicality. So I think I think I think the other thing that's happened is education, finds it harder to be relevant in an era of Google. So you can't just say, Look, that's true, you know, history book, you know, a is over here, read it, we're going to exam on Friday, you've actually got to be more relevant that you've got to generate insight. And that's I think we're, we're I've, again, learned being on the school board is, and I've got tremendous respect for how the schools approach this new educational sort of paradigm.

Daniel Franco: 22:44

Yeah. And kudos for getting involved with it. Right. I mean, you have much more busier, can you bake? Not much? Not much. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, look, everyone, especially within the realms of South Australia would know, you as the owner of the Adelaide 36ers, but I do want to deep dive into the role of a CRM and we do get a lot of, you know, C suite and leaders listening in and so for me, you've managed some huge portfolios, you think about with city developments and then Navin vicinity centers? Yeah. You know, what, what is some advice that you can give to, to an aspiring CEO, someone who is looking to grow their career looking to take on a portfolio looking to manage and lead people work to vision work to strategy, understand final, all the above, what would be some real traits that you would like to see in some of those aspiring CEOs?

Grant Kelly: 23:47

And the first thing is, I think, to, to always be authentic in what you're being brought in to do. So, you know, suddenly, when I took it over was an amalgamation of two companies. My skill set was probably somewhat suitable in maybe business building and turnaround management. Because as you know, in a post merger integration scenario, there's a lot of challenges. And, and so I think the first thing is to recognize from the business challenge, you know, why me? Why was I hired? And, and make sure that that value proposition from you is what you're giving back to the business? And then I think it's a question of actually the team, I think you've got to have people around you that are good at things that you maybe, perhaps are not. And one of the great things that age teaches you is that you can't be particularly to things actually, it teaches you that you can't be great at everything. And in the process of doing that it also teaches you to celebrate what you are good at. And so I think it's understanding that balance, not being too shy to advocate your point of view, and it's in a clear area of strength, which, again, as you likely said, So as you said earlier, Daniel and it's likely I think correct is, that's probably for me still Strategy and Finance. But surround yourself with people that are outstanding, you know, operations that human resources, corporate affairs, legal. You can't do it yourself, you can't and, and then, and then managing that team and getting the best imaginable person for the role, I'm going to say imagine I use that deliberately. You never make a battlefield promotion, because you're panicking and a Rolls come up, you've always got to be thoughtful, and strategic about people. And, and I'm really honored by the team. I've assembled it personally in the last four years. It's an extraordinary group of people, like genuinely the best team I've ever worked with. And I really mean that with total sincerity, it's a remarkable group. But I think it reflects the fact probably that I've become maybe older and a bit wiser. And rather than recruiting people that were similar to me, I recruited people that were different. Shared values, absolutely. We get along well, socially, yep. But their skill set does things that I can't do. And then the collective business benefits.

Daniel Franco: 26:12

What is What does a remarkable team look like on a day to day basis, you see where this team being one of the best that you've ever assembled? Yeah. Going into work each day, what is remarkable,

Grant Kelly: 26:24

I think it's it's, it's, it's the effortless coordination, it's the fact you can almost finish each other's sentences, you're so aligned on what the mission is. And, and you're all again, in your different respective domains. But it's, it's it's figuring out how to actually coordinate that group. I think high performance teams are, operate, almost. And we've done a lot of work at vicinity on this through a brilliant Melbourne based academic, John Lurie. And what Dr. Lurie has taught us is that companies operate like things in nature systems. And so it's getting that system to work seamlessly. Everyone knows their role. Everyone understands the point of connection of their role with another role. And it's stitched together by shared values. And if you do that, it's funny how life is just much more straightforward. So that to me is the key is understanding, again, your role in the system, working collaboratively. And that's what the team looks and feels like day in day out for us today. It's been a journey to get there to be honest. But I actually you know, and I think the other thing is just viscerally in the pit of your stomach, you know it when you're part of it, right? Like you, you were a great athlete in your day, you know that what defines a good team, it's really just want to be with them all the time. You just love them, right? You just love their company, and camaraderie, and the and the ethics and all, everything that makes them unique. You can't wait to see them when you do drive your car in the morning. And that and that's where I think we are today.

Daniel Franco: 28:04

Do you still have to keep SCA? Do you still have to keep that low level of accountability to the team to?

Grant Kelly: 28:12

Absolutely,

Daniel Franco: 28:12

yeah. And how do you manage that?

Grant Kelly: 28:14

That's a really good question. So I think so I think I think the first thing is to recognize that in a diverse workplace, the number one way of leading a team is actually intellectual. It's a really interesting point of departure from the old days where it was hierarchical, and you'd have a rah rah speech. And, you know, frankly, it was a it was a world that was dominated by, you know, if we're, if we're really honest, white male privilege. You know, how do you migrate to a new world where you have, thank goodness, much more diversity, and therefore, more availability of talent and ideas? And the answer, I think, is that you, you have to lead intellectually, you have to add value through how you think. Because everyone can access a thought not everyone can access an experience that you've heard or somebody has had not had, yeah, but you can access a thought. And I think, sort of the corollary of that is you've got to have an ability to admit when somebody has a better idea. And one of the things that being a CEO is, is letting go. The old paradigm that you had to always be right. Yeah, I think actually you gain strength by admitting that you yourself, are on a journey that you yourself may not have all the answers and, you know, you know, let's let's figure this out collaboratively. And a lot of that, by the way, comes back to my early training at Booz Allen they set the philosophy at Booz Allen that because it was very analytically focused firm, so it really rewarded I think, you know, people that had great thought processes. And the concept was the idea was was King, you know, or queen if you want to use a politically correct term, and no That was a great way to grow up because you certain sort of, you know, 24 year olds sitting there and I, my opinion mattered with somebody twice my age who was a leading partner of the firm. Yeah. And, and I've tried to have that philosophy. I think the other just quick one on that is accessibility. People have always got to feel the CEOs, approachable, friendly, not familiar, by the way, I can talk about that in a second. But you've got to be friendly, but not familiar. You mustn't try to aggregate into your life, the personal lives of your team, but you've got to be approachable. And I think that, you know, these these, that combined with the dominance of thinking, usually gets you to to a good outcome.

Daniel Franco: 30:45

A lovely account, can we just touch on? Yeah, I'm not familiar part. Yeah. Explain why that is so critical.

Grant Kelly: 30:51

Again, it can such I think this concept of sort of workplace diversity and respect is, we all have unconscious biases. So. So the way I think to be a CEO is to give people a sense of you, as a person, but not to try to invade their world. For example, I never call anyone on my team, after hours or on weekends, unless it's an emergency. And we do have emergencies, you know, we have incidents at the shopping center, sometimes on weekends with, you know, very regrettably, someone that may be injured, for example, and we do need to, to organize around that. But if we plan our work properly, and we work really hard, you know, let's say sort of, you know, eight to five, or six, or whatever the hours are, then we have the ability to actually create space. And I believe that people do better, when they have their own life, that's independent. I'm sort of a very anti the concept that that it's into, and I think, again, it comes back to systems theory, you know, you play a different role as a husband or father or, or mother or daughter, in your home life than you do when you're, you know, when you're here. And you're Daniel, you're the CEO of the company. So you have, we all have that, that need for that, that outlet. And I think it's crucial for people to feel space. And so I don't try to try to be their best friend or to be anything like that. I just try to be professional, helpful, courteous, and approachable. And leave it at that

Daniel Franco: 32:27

and create that level of boundary. Yeah,

Grant Kelly: 32:30

that's right. Yeah. And actually, it's interesting. You said that, because what defines a system is the boundary. Yeah. So if I'm actually saying, Look, this is work and the system, and I'm a really hard working CEO, and I play my role, but I draw a boundary around it then creates room for their other world, their other system, if you will, which is there, if you want to call it their real life, and that's family, friendships and the like, and it's, it took me a long time to evolve to that, because I'm quite a gregarious person. And I remember though, again, mentors can sometimes work antithetical, you know, against how perhaps they're trying to be perceived. I remember, as a young guy, I remember being in New Zealand, there was a, there was my manager, who would always and I had a girlfriend used to come over and visit. And you know, I was 24 year old guy, and this fellow would always think was fantastic to organize a lot of events, because he thought we were nice young couple, and all the rest of it. But we had no space. And I, you know, not was well intentioned, but it actually created a sense of claustrophobia. So giving people the room to be themselves away from the office away from the quote, boss is is crucial, I think.

Daniel Franco: 33:47

Yeah. And it's not to say that you don't show interest in their life, right? But create that clear defining boundary.

Grant Kelly: 33:55

Absolutely. And the other thing is, as males, we can unconsciously, if we're trying to be friendly, or sorry, for 20 familiar, we can appear very blokey. And we can actually create a sense of exclusion for people that are not us. Who, for example, women, and so we've got to be so careful with how we're signaling as well, you know, right. But by being excessively friendly, and always talking about the Fourier or, or what have you, yeah.

Daniel Franco: 34:24

100%. So going back to the strategy, finance piece, and still wrapped up in the CEO role. Well, I know the answer is all the above that the answer is always going to be all the above and whatever. And it depends on how but in your mind, for business to be successful. As a leader, as a CEO, what do you concentrate wholeheartedly on first?

Grant Kelly: 34:54

Performance? Yeah, I mean, I mean, it's ultimately and that's a you know, as you said, sort of foreshadowed annual performance is an easy answer to that question. I think the real question is what does that mean? How do you get to perform right? But, but my fundamental is performance, which is measured by a number of things. Obviously, there's financial metrics, but there's things like engagement scores, which really matter. There's ESG, which is crucial today. And so you've almost got a set of performance criteria, you've got to you've got to meet. But But yeah, I mean, I think that's very much the focus. How you get there, of course, is the tough part. But that's that's certainly where I ultimately, I think, should be evaluated and indeed are evaluated is, is around the performance of the business across a number of, of key metrics. So I hope that wasn't too generic, and happy to dive into each of the

Daniel Franco: 35:54

way performance, based on executing the execution of the strategy is that is essentially what you're saying

Grant Kelly: 36:00

it is. But it's also, you know, one of the I think, things about strategy is, and there's the saying in the military, that, you know, no battle plan survives engagement with the enemy. Right. So it's, it's having a plan, but being prepared to change the plan. Yeah, you know, we, we've had a fantastic, I think, sort of strategic coming together all the different parts of our business in the last four years, but we had a massive disruption with COVID. Right. And so we had to pause our strategy that was really a pre pandemic, you know, growth strategy, and go into crisis management. And it's, it's almost like, you've got to have the adaptability, you've got to have a skill set that can adapt. And, and the fundamental thing about strategy, I believe, is being prepared to see it evolve, and change it when the external conditions change on you. And that is probably the key to being a perennial leader. You know, I think if you're, if you're a one trick pony, you've got a great strategy, you know, you invent a new product. Awesome. Yeah, that that's rare. For most people to be year in, year out, you know, in contention with your, with your market with your competition, you have to adapt. And that, to me, is probably the thing that we've done the best in the last couple of years, to be honest. Yeah. Brilliant.

Daniel Franco: 37:31

Yeah. Adaptability. And, yeah, I think it's an element of emotional intelligence as well. Right? And not not letting the ego get in the way. Right. Right. If you do need to adapt, and like you said, it's about using the people within. It's about the idea.

Grant Kelly: 37:48

It's funny, you should mention the ego, but I think the myth of a lot of successful people is, well, there must be highly egocentric. I've actually found the opposite is true, because I think in a highly competitive world, it's really difficult to be egocentric and survive. And you just got to look at examples in the world of sport. Every year, you have to, you know, rethink how you condition yourself, how you, if you're a tennis player, what Strokeplay use if you're a basketball coach, what, you know what rotations you use? No one at the elite level has the luxury of relaxation anymore. And that actually tends to be humbling, which is good.

Daniel Franco: 38:32

Absolutely. We've dived on a few different topics in there around. I mean, you've mentioned time management, you've mentioned family time, and you know, creating that boundary and then we talked about you in your role in your career where you are CEO of vicinity centers, the owner of Adelaide, 30, Six's are on bunch of boards as well in amongst all that. How do we and this is a question I typically ask, and I'm really passionate about it. So how can we fully pursue and realize our visions, while at the same time cultivating love and thriving relationships?

Grant Kelly: 39:14

A lot and that question, no, that's why your favorite now because it's a toughy. Look, I think, I think firstly, you can't be a workaholic, just being very practical about it. You can't you've got to, you know, as a parent, you've got to make that you know, that call to cancel and then you go and pick your, your child up at school because they want to talk. You've got to also actually understand you can't schedule kids. Yeah, like they'll come in and out of, you know, the room when you're doing some work or something and they'll have a question to ask. And it could be at 7am in the morning or nine o'clock at night. It doesn't matter. But you've you've just got to have I think a philosophy that you that you prioritize that. And I actually would argue you prioritize it above all else. Okay. Now that's an interesting one, I hope because the reason I say above all else is this. There's structures and processes and things in place. In the business world, there's Microsoft Outlook calendars, there's, there's a demanding schedule. You know, I was half an hour late here, we've rescheduled our day, because it's important to me to do this talk and you know, we, so that we'll get that outcome takes care of itself. You've got to actually create the capacity for the family to exist alongside of that, and the only way to do that, I think, is to prioritize the family because this other hit is so overwhelming and has its absolute own momentum. So you got to sit and go, you know? Yeah, I'm going to have dinner with Kirsty tonight. I'm gonna take Jack to a basketball game I'm going to walk the dog we have a great dog by the way, which I can talk to you about and that's about it. That's the other key to success is you know, everyone get a pit. Yeah. And we we are messing on what

Daniel Franco: 41:07

dog gives me the sheets. Yeah.

Grant Kelly: 41:11

He's, he's a bit of a bit of a character. He's good. He's good for actually what breed is I've got a caboodle. are you chatting? I knew that. Yes. Is a Labradoodle? Yeah. And the name Freddie Freddie Yuki. Yeah, so Yuki the Labradoodle was a bit of a terror around the streets of Dulwich, but we love him. Yeah. Funnily enough that same to kiss just the other day, I actually find walking him for 15 minutes in the morning in the evenings brings me unmitigated joy. Yeah. Did you find that? No, no. So Freddie, Freddie obviously.

Daniel Franco: 41:44

Freddie is that, the kids and my wife love love Freddie. My, the walking element for me and the running element. Yeah, we have an immense amount of joy. But

Grant Kelly: 41:55

yeah, I'm maybe needs a little more running, walking.

Daniel Franco: 41:58

I'm asked this question. And we're digressing here. But I'm gonna go down. Did you have a dog growing up?

Grant Kelly: 42:03

Yeah. I actually had a cat. We had dogs and cats. We had a, we had a famous cat called Thomas, that my mother was to bring a tear to the eye. And he lived to the ripe old age of 19. Yeah, and we had a dog before that called spec. And then his second dog called Sabine. It was a big rock Rottweiler. And I'm totally digressing. But we had Yeah, we always had pets.

Daniel Franco: 42:27

So I only own a cat. And same thing. i from the moment I was born. We had our cat. Her name was spicy. Don't ask me with a name. It was named before I was born. Right? And then but she passed away when I was 18. So I only ever had a cat in my life.

Grant Kelly: 42:46

You say I turned 18 Wow. So it was like a like a sibling. She

Daniel Franco: 42:49

absolutely yeah, and and but the thing was that this thing left me alone right. Where's the dog is just in my face all the time. So there's an all night long.

Grant Kelly: 43:01

Because guess will tell you this when she sees you. But I I become actually fascinated by the differences between dogs and cats and clients with them. There's a lot of science now that all dogs are descended from gray wolves. Yes. Yeah, it's the most incredible thing and so and for whatever reason humans and wolves coexisted in peace, but it would change the potential

Daniel Franco: 43:24

task would you know the story behind that as in like, because they back in the day humans were nomadic, right? So that's right, they move they move but the wolves you still attack so that humans would then find a spot up against the cliff so that they couldn't get attacked from behind right? So then the wolves then became hungry because there was nothing left to eat so they would sort of float around the edges eventually the humans started throwing food towards the wolves then that's how they sort of became so it's an amazing sort of turn of event

Grant Kelly: 43:51

and explains a lot of us currently, however, yeah, so But no, well done. Well, you're you're you're an eclectic man.

Daniel Franco: 43:58

I do read a little bit of history. I do like that stuff. But what are we talking about?

Grant Kelly: 44:04

Okay, not just not just the creating the space as family. Yeah. And look, you know, I actually think balance in life is everything to business world and to family world. So

Daniel Franco: 44:15

yeah, I'm gonna ask the question so I you know, business is growing, we're doing quite well, things are things are moving in the right direction. And then this is a current and life event for me right now. I just, there's a lot on Yeah, and yeah, this is my third podcast this week. I've had like, and so there's been the businesses going there's a lot of quotes going out. There's a lot of Reliance's a lot of on Mayo to make decisions and people need things not to mention you throwing COVID was people being sick enough. There's just extra work that needs to be done. So I'm working like pretty much every night and last night. I think my wife had enough And so what I think the bit for me is, you talk about priorities. But if you pull one lever and other ones affected, yeah, and, and so there's 20 people in the team, yeah, pull that lever, then potentially 20 People might get affected. Whereas if I pull the word lever, then it's only my wife. And typically, like, I know that sounds really bad. But my wife and kids, I should say, Yeah, but that's the really hard decision, which you kind of know that there's always going to be that unconditional love come from your wife and kids. So they are I feels like they're the ones that always suffer

Grant Kelly: 45:34

yet. Look, I hear you. And I think it's almost having a culture in your workplace. Where would you would have just knowing you a little bit but where? Firstly, your absence is not, you know, that you're not the only reason the machine keeps moving. And again, the system just keeps has its own logic. And then secondly, I think, you know, keeping your wife happy. So, so, so, so no, on a serious note, yeah, look, it's not easy, right. And I think, you know, we use all these buzzwords, but the real answer that everyone watching this podcast would know is that it's often a struggle. And, you know, you've just got to almost transactionally figure out the way forward. What was that line from Winston Churchill? You know, keep calm and keep buggering on? Yeah, just keep going. And life. If you're surrounded by people with good values, who have your interests at heart, you get through the bump. Yeah. That you want us a very understanding lady. But

Daniel Franco: 46:32

she's and I think you're right, though. It's about building it to being a machine that can sort of spin on itself, I think, yeah. As you're growing, and you're going through those growth,

Grant Kelly: 46:42

it's hard. It's really hard. And that's why I say like, the reality is, yeah, there's a lot of trade offs, and it's not easy.

Daniel Franco: 46:48

So let's move into the world of the basketball, because I am conscious of your time. So I do want to talk a little bit about the 36ers. Yeah. When does the possibility of owning a basketball company come to come to the fray? Like what, at what point in your career do you go? Actually I'm going to spend my hard earned savings on a basketball club?

Grant Kelly: 47:12

I am? Well, that's a lot of that question. Look, I I've always been fascinated by the business of sport. I'd started I'd always been a sports tragic, and I've always been somebody who played sport. And, you know, it was just a natural outgrowth for me of the, you know, the fondness I have for sport with the fact that was probably work, you know, 30 years in business and. And it was instinctive, you know, when the opportunity arose, which was November of 2016. So some time ago now, I didn't even give it a second thought. To be honest, I was on a tear, really funny story. I was actually in Adelaide and a mate of mine, who was one of the prior ownership group. For various reasons, they were looking for investment. And I remember I was getting the tramp Victoria Square, because I was living I was I'd have a car, he was getting the tramp of Victoria Square down to Copenhagen, I just met this guy for coffee. And I just remember, this idea just consumed me, like I was thinking, Oh, my God, this, I really want to do this. And I've never wavered in that. I don't know why maybe it's some form of undiagnosed sort of, you know, challenge that I've got in my in my makeup, but I was, you know, I've never regretted it. It's it's been a really tough journey. Having said that, but no, I've never regretted it. And it was almost instinctive.

Daniel Franco: 48:42

So I mean, you are you have been CEO of city developments, vicinity centers, you make really smart and intelligent decisions on investments in where to go. Yeah. Hopefully, hopefully. Well, the proofs in the pudding. Right. Was there a lot of rigor around your decision to purchase or was it more of an emotional,

Grant Kelly: 49:09

totally emotional? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think you got to you know, at the end of the day, you just have to recognize probably in life there are certain things you got to be emotional. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 49:17

So to love it's a love job. Really. It is yes, I side project passion. It's, it's

Grant Kelly: 49:23

been the reason it's been so tough is and happy to talk about it in as much detail as you want. Actually, Daniel, because I've reflected on a fair bit. So the economics of a modern basketball team are only about 20% of your revenue base comes from crowd attendances. So, merchandising, corporate sponsorship, TV deal, business, Katari clubs, you know, memberships? Yeah. Okay. These are about 80% of your revenue in any given year. Maybe even higher than that. And certainly during COVID, they have been higher the attendance component has dropped. So what does that imply? Well, it implies that the fan engagement, the fan base, is crucial. And it actually is the mechanism by which the team defines itself and the city in certain sense defines itself. But in the black box, you know, what the wizard sort of needs to do behind the curtain is make that other 80% work. And that was the tough part of the Sixers. Because when we took it over, we had a, we had a fantastic club, we still do. The reason I was late this morning to this interview was and I'm not going out live, right. So I can tell you, but I met with our Green, who was who's going to be announced this afternoon as in our one of our two inductees in the Hall of Fame. The other is going to rush him after the podcast is Scott Enos. And they're both great sixes and great friends. But as I was talking to Al this morning, we were talking about this journey. And all Australian sports have evolved, I think from the AFL did at first but crickets had to do it. You evolved from the club, into the business into the professional organization is maybe a better, better phraseology. And that journey is really painful. It's painful for people who have given their time at, you know, as a volunteer, rubbing down the legs of players after games. Yeah, it's it's tied for the person that's been selling pies and pasties, you know, in the store and loves the club. And so, so where I where it was challenging for me was that 20%, which defines us, was not the part that was going to help us survive. So helping us survive was 80%. And that's what I didn't know going in. Because I'd always been a fan. Yeah, I'd always been one of the 20%. I still am, you know, you see me it goes like a crazy jumping out of my seat and sort of pushing my heart rate up how that needs to be but not holding any not. But But But But what I needed to actually get my arms around took me a while was was actually the the organization of the business, the organization of the club. And, and luckily for us, we've had a great group on the journey. The past players have been incredible. The fans have been fantastic, you know, I can't I can't comply.

Daniel Franco: 52:28

You, you seem to you've appointed Nick Barbata. CEO, and he's brought in John Ciana, as well as COO, they're doing some pretty amazing stuff. On the back end, I mean, the performances on the on the court haven't been probably where you need them to be or we'd like them to be. But behind the scenes, it seems like things are starting to really move in the right direction.

Grant Kelly: 52:53

Yeah, we just on the on the court stuff, I think, watch this space, we we, again, had maybe an organizational model that needed tweaking. So we had a single point of accountability for recruitment. We've now dispersed that, and taken that budget and deployed it across a scouting assistant coaching and data analytics team. It's been quite revolution, what we've done off the court in the last three months. So I think we'll get some better results. And I think the I think is generationally, we can't we're coming to an end of a great era, which was Joey rights era. Yeah. Still the best coach that I've ever seen. I think CJ Bruton will grow into that coach and a remarkable leader and had a symbol just a remarkable team. And like every sport, we'd probably about two years ago started to see some retirements and the like, but yes, we said the front office, we use this American expression to describe Chiasson avato. You know, the front office guys are fantastic. A little small tidbit was spoke to Nick a couple of days ago, my car goes through my diary and I'm like, Oh, we've got the Sixers in business lunch next week. And I'm like, Look, I'll get into Atlanta from Melbourne. This Tony and he just goes GA got to be there he goes. There's 500 People come Yeah. Ah, yeah. And that's what these guys have done. There. Nick was very interesting. And unorthodox recruitment. Because as you know, having grown grown up with him down he was a SOCCER GUY. Yeah. professional soccer player for Adelaide City. Moved, did an MBA in sport at Liverpool University. And but and had mainly worked in that sport. But okay, so just park that for one second. And we used a sports headhunter. And what the headhunter said to me was, you need to start looking at soccer executives because like basketball soccer, is actually a global sport but is a second sport in Australia. But It's going to be a maybe larger sport of competing with AFL 20 years from now. And so that was a paradigm shift. And then the way we found Barbaro was we put all these guys through the psychographic profile. And my friend Nick Marvin, who's a former CEO of the Perth Wildcats, and he goes GK, this guy's perfect. He'll be able to get along with you. Like, I looked at him, he actually he'll understand you. I'm like, Ah, okay. Take, you know. And yeah, look, Nick's been a revelation and recruited in John chinos has been incredible on the commercial side, and also from a soccer background. And yet, we're very lucky to get get the team we've got. And they have, of course, like all great leadership groups have they've now that has cascaded for the people they've brought in. Yeah, so probably got the best soccer, leadership event sport, basketball, or soccer in Australia.

Daniel Franco: 55:49

Oh, there's a few points in that. And one thing I would like I would love you to the plug the you know, the 60s in business stuff that you guys are doing, it seems today, you know, when you talk about a revenue base, and bring in some opportunities for growth within 36ers Is that seems like it's such a great idea.

Grant Kelly: 56:05

Well think I said to the other day, you know what, you know, I loved it. So the first six is a business event I went to because John sort of did it. And I was over trying to sort of get some shopping centers. We started I, I came to that event down at Henley beach. And I walked in and I'm like, I don't know anyone here. Yeah. Because it's all on you. The young guys. Yeah. Like yourself and guys in digital, and I think my brother in law was there and all this sort of stuff. But the interesting thing was, we are through six years in business building a network with the emerging business titans of South Australia. And that to me was was the great part about it. So yeah, I'm 57 years old. I'm no spring chicken. And I've probably got a pretty decent group of, of contacts who who love the club and support us. But what I love about sixes in business is it's brought together I'm guessing the median age is probably 40. And it's a lot of new economy, businesses, consulting, digital defense, solar, yeah. With Dave Scarcella, and tremendous guys like that.

Daniel Franco: 57:05

Dave has been on the podcast.

Grant Kelly: 57:07

He's and Kirsty's brother Newman works for him.

Daniel Franco: 57:10

Yeah. So there we go. Aaron, Hickman

Grant Kelly: 57:14

another another great from a basketball guy. Yeah. And a Newman was actually Aaron was actually Newman's best man, the famous story so anyway, at a wedding, I was like to

Daniel Franco: 57:27

seems like a common theme. He was like to because I was actually watching the Sydney kings get destroyed. I

Grant Kelly: 57:33

still to this day, the worst argument I've ever had. Okay. But anyway, yeah, look, it's a great group. And it's and it's the it's the and what I like about it is it's the emerging group of business leadership in this state. And how cool is that? Yeah. Have generational leadership on the commercial side for the Sixers. I think coming out of this group.

Daniel Franco: 57:53

How do you how do you manage the emotion of it all right. I mean earlier you know, you're talking about Sydney getting thumped and the other you know, when you're screaming and yelling at the sport at the game and managing you know, what might be a tough week with vicinity then the Sixers go down? And how do you compartmentalize the whole, the whole pace?

Grant Kelly: 58:19

I mean, I think you've got to always understand that. Firstly, sport is an important element of life, but it's not life. So you know, that old cliche you know, keep it in perspective. Yeah. Having said that, I hate losing at all, and I really hate losing basketball games, but I'm alright when it's in a weight loss. But what is the harm loss? I'm gonna come back and face you and other you know, sponsors etc members

Daniel Franco: 58:45

is a home to classify Melbourne is home as well. So he lose in Melbourne and

Grant Kelly: 58:51

I love that when my dad was in Melbournian, we've actually had a pretty good record on the road in Melbourne. Okay, so we've we've actually beaten united in Melbourne a couple of times since I had the vicinity roll and then we have had a great rivalry with Southeast Melbourne which we probably split those gains 5050 We've done okay, but no, no, I don't regard a winner Melbourne as a home so anyway,

Daniel Franco: 59:19

so just on the compartmentalization of it though, do you how do you manage your mental health in in just with everything that's going on in your life?

Grant Kelly: 59:31

I actually exercise believe it or not quite a bit so I try to do a lot of walking every day believe it or not, I do 16,000 Steps Daniel, i'm very proud of that. very good doesn't show

Daniel Franco: 59:43

but I just a few ones that you have every now now

Grant Kelly: 59:46

it's just the Irish Irish gentle No, I I don't five yeah, I don't I don't really have any anything other than maybe just family and a bit of exercise and yeah, you know I've actually I've just always been able to switch off. I mean, I think maybe this sounds a bit cocky or something, I hope it doesn't but because I've always been under pressure, like, right from my 20s It's never seemed unusual when I am under pressure. So just sort of roll with it and just say, Look, you know, this is just get through it. And I do I go to bed early. I make sure I get a lot of rest. When a six seven hour sleep night. Yeah, usually on average about that, you know, that 10 o'clock sleep like 530? That's it. I mean, I, you know, I think you've got to take also regular breaks, you know, we do check in I do a driving holiday, once a year, which you know, just get in the car, and we really talk. Yeah. So I think it's also having that just that ability also to schedule breaks and the like, people are always surprised that I'm, you know, probably, hopefully, people would say I'm more calm and relaxed when they meet me than they perhaps thought I was going to.

Daniel Franco: 1:01:05

Anyway, you've left a good impression on me Grant a few times that we've, we've caught up, I want to just touch on i so going back to the ownership side of 36 is the C roll. Working them both in tandem plus all the boards. And when, when we are out with talk, we took the picked on this last time when we caught up for a coffee a couple of weeks back and and I would really be interested in you sharing your thoughts again, but when does enough, become enough?

Grant Kelly: 1:01:45

So I think it's it comes back to how you define success. How do I define how I define success has probably changed? Yeah. I think I'm much more focused now on shared endeavor. I think I'm less focused on individual accomplishments. And it's made me much more relaxed than I used to be. So that that actually does take the pressure off. But on the question, when is enough, enough? I mean, look, I don't think I can do. I don't want to do put it that way much more in terms of time commitment. So maybe leave it at that. Look, you know, in terms of financial health, I mean, I think I use that quote to you that, you know, somebody went up to Jack Nicklaus once and said, I'm not saying I'm in any way comparable to, you know, to Nicklaus in any walk of life that I've worked in, but somebody said, Oh, Mr. Nicklaus, you know, you know, how does it feel, you know, to have been the, you know, the person that won the most on the PGA Tour in terms of prize money. And, and he was genuinely surprised. And the answer he gave was, well, I don't worry about the money I just focus on the next part. And so I think it's it's almost like I think we're lucky enough to live in a country where if you work hard and you creative, you're going to have it chances are some degree of material success but it mustn't define you in some it didn't define Jack Nicklaus just what he was worried about was you know the smoothness of his his putting stroke and hopefully for me, I worry about you know, getting the Sixers to championship you know, being a good CEO day in day out being a good family man. You know that they're what really motivated me my different heavily compartmentalized Yeah, world

Daniel Franco: 1:03:38

is there is ups to the trajectory for you in the

Grant Kelly: 1:03:43

No, it's not actually Um, no, I'm I'm sense of question. probably in a harvesting mode if I'm really honest in my life a little bit I I don't know what's caused this maybe it's contaminant but I don't have that same degree of just burning desire to to I'm going to finish I was going to win. Yeah, but it's not it doesn't define it doesn't consume me in a way that perhaps it once did. Yeah. But I don't know if it means how you'd sort of equate that to to direction I think I just focus maybe a little more on inputs and processes rather than outputs these days and said look, I've done my best to do the right thing I was ethical, hardworking, have added some value on the journey, what will be will be but certainly with the Sixers, that's not true because I am obsessed with getting everyone knows. So it may be asked me once we've got the championship and I'll be even, hopefully more more relaxed.

Daniel Franco: 1:04:47

I will. It certainly sounds though and just based on your language, that you are deriving a lot of joy and contentment out of the relationships that you building along the way,

Grant Kelly: 1:05:01

but that's what you've got right in life, right? The key thing in life is, is people I mean, rather than things, you know, sort of have a choice probably in life, and yet, I was just lucky enough, I was brought up in a way where we never then we had we had periods where mom and dad had to work really hard, and especially mum, candidly to put us through school and, and but I suppose, yeah, we've been lucky on the journey. And that's probably made, made me give me the, the, the bubble in which to actually invest in relationships. I think sometimes people that have had a degree of material success. They say things are actually disrespectful to people that haven't and I'm very lucky, I believe, I'm very lucky. And that has given me the ability to invest in relationships, you know, some some folks don't have that opportunity, working two jobs. And and I think it's very important for those that have had success not to be too sort of smart lucky about it and preach to the world. I reckon it's really hard, you know, for a lot of people out there and I think people like myself need to also recognize that but yes, to the extent that I can, invest in relationships are always do always to always happen is that the key? Is that the key? 100 percent? Because, you know, that old saying, you know, just be, you know, you know, it takes more muscles to frown than to smile. It's true, you know, if you exude a positive vibe, even if it seems like all, everything's against you, people key off that and that's really the art of leadership. It's just again, staying calm and just evoking confidence. And yeah, I think that's actually been again, something that hopefully have I've done on the way.

Daniel Franco: 1:06:53

Brilliant one, I'm conscious of your time. So one last quick question. Before we go, actually want us two quick questions. Yeah, sure. So and you touched on it before on our basketball might actually be the sport the number one sport we see it in America, like America, basketball is huge. And then and all and think if you look around the world basketball was one of the top rated sports Young. In Australia, basketball was actually a basketball and soccer from a participation point of view that the top two

Grant Kelly: 1:07:21

That's right, and especially sub 30. Yes, so the young people are all playing

Daniel Franco: 1:07:25

are all playing. And if you go to the basketball, and I apparently everyone who's listening to this show, get off to a basketball game. It's entertainment. Plus, like an NBA game, it's, you put on an amazing show. Thanks far better than what I like. I'm a big foodie. fan, I feel football fan. But the from an entertainment point of view, take the kids it's it's brilliant. When and how does basketball become the number one sport? And do you think it will?

Grant Kelly: 1:07:55

It's certainly the growth trajectories suggest that it will. I think you've got to look back at the intrinsics as to why, you know, why would it be the number one sport so unlike a lot of other sports, you can't really get injured in basketball too badly. If you play professionally, you know, you may be going to have a leg injury or hip injury at some point, but you're not going to have a head injuries you can get in other sports. So, you know, you know, the by side decision for our club. And the sporting decision is usually made by by mums. So we're a family club. But within that construct, women make the call. And so they like the fact that children are going to be hurt men and women can both play it with exactly the same rules, timetable, etc. That's quite unique and really think about it's it's time limited. So it's over in two hours. And then I think the final thing is for the really good athletes, unlike say AFL basketball and soccer, for that matter have the ability to play internationally. Yeah. And so for really good, talented kids like say Josh giddy you know, he's obviously unfortunately injured now. But Josh was with us last year now with Oklahoma in in the NBA, but Josh has carved out a career path. So there's many things internationally so there's many things that impact the parents call on what's on their kids playing. And that's where we try to get if you will, the value proposition to to resonate is with parents and specifically moms because it's a hell of a sport for them to have their kids participating.

Daniel Franco: 1:09:35

I fingers crossed my kids play basketball. Yeah, great.

Grant Kelly: 1:09:38

Remember, you tell me that Yeah. I'm

Daniel Franco: 1:09:40

in love with the sport and yeah, it Yeah, I think the like I said the entertainment plus the 36ers is put on. It's just the thing that's going to keep more and more kids watching the game and getting involved.

Grant Kelly: 1:09:54

And you know, we've had record crowds. On your point. We've had record crowds, even last year. Couple of years when we haven't been so had record for with the COVID benchmark. And prior to that, I think we're third third highest in the league in the in the last year pre pandemic. And each of those years we missed the finals, which I'm not happy about, but people kept coming. And the reason why is, it's, it's an entertainment proposition as much as a sporting fixture. And to your point, man, you know, people, parents have kids, you see, and you see your kids happy and having a great time listen to music as Bloody clackers clacker and sing Mary the magpie, which I still think is the best mascot. Really in South Australia. My daughter had a photo with him. Yeah. closely guarded. Where Mary risks things but very large magpie.

Daniel Franco: 1:10:46

He He's one last question before we get into some quickfire. What does the future look like? For grant?

Grant Kelly: 1:10:54

I think I've got Yeah, I think I think I've got a probably a pivot point coming up in three to four years. Like many people do when they when they hit my god when they hit their 60s, but I, you know, I'd like to really do much more of giving back actually, in my twilight years, I've been very blessed with the country. I grew up in the South Australian, magnificent South Australian community I grew up in specifically, I know I want to give back so hopefully I can, in a small way, do that.

Daniel Franco: 1:11:27

Brilliant. Well. Okay, but watch out for that. Right? Oh, some quickfire questions.

Grant Kelly: 1:11:32

Okay, here we go. Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:11:33

that's the tough part, right? Not so much. It depends sometimes that they can go on. I've actually had these quickfire questions going from

Grant Kelly: 1:11:40

it's just like the chase room. Okay, cuz my mom loves the chase. She's probably only listening in somewhere

Daniel Franco: 1:11:46

where big readers here We love reading knowledge, personal growth, development, or creating synergy and synergy IQ. What are you reading right now?

Grant Kelly: 1:11:57

Eddie Jones's book on leadership. How he turned on the English rugby union team. Good, right. Great book. Yeah, yeah, grant given me by my best mate. So who knows me well, and pick picked a good book for me.

Daniel Franco: 1:12:08

Excellent. Second question. What book do you feels feel that stands out from the crowd when trying to develop your career into say, a senior leadership role?

Grant Kelly: 1:12:19

And are so good to great. Yeah. on your desk? I think that's a that's a fantastic benchmark. Yeah. Just how to actually take some of that that's good enough, but actually make it world class.

Daniel Franco: 1:12:29

And I think you mentioned it earlier, getting the right people on the bus 100% Rule number one,

Grant Kelly: 1:12:34

yeah. 100%. And, and that's the that's the surest path to to I think, success if you can do that.

Daniel Franco: 1:12:42

Do you listen to any podcast or anything other than the creativity podcast obviously. I know you're on the Kanzi one three which

Grant Kelly: 1:12:50

Yeah, so I was gonna say the one I used to listen to as my great mate and purse on my tremendously Graham cornes conversation cornsy. I do. I do try to listen in online to that. Yeah. And look, I've got to say, give a shout out here for my other grandmother of five who are always trying to Sahrawi sports show. So even when I was up in Asia, I'd be there in Singapore. It was about 230 In the afternoon, and I've looked through the internet, and listen to listen to Steven, just, you know, he's entertain us. And he's a passionate type. He's a great man. And if you haven't interviewed him on this podcast,

Daniel Franco: 1:13:29

I'd love to [inaudible audio] Cornes as well, if you ever do an intro,

Grant Kelly: 1:13:33

if he comes on Ask him about our trip to Tasmania last year. All right. It's quite quite entertaining and some funny stories.

Daniel Franco: 1:13:39

Well, I need you to help me anymore. Yeah. Okay, good. If, okay, so, what is one lesson that's taking you the longest to learn?

Grant Kelly: 1:13:52

The importance of team? Yeah, that's a very self critical remark I've just made because took me a long time, but it's, it's everything.

Daniel Franco: 1:14:00

Absolutely. We won't touch on that. Okay, well, I was gonna say the importance of team and. And so for me, is it the, is it the way you manage that team? Or is it the

Grant Kelly: 1:14:18

well, the other answer is going to get? Yeah, the answer is going to give you is the power of humility, not being humble, but the power of it. Yeah, you know, most people know who you are. They know your track record. They're already got a level of respect or disrespect based on you as an object if you're humble. Oh, my goodness. How powerful is that? Yeah. So I think the power of humility and that goes to jump the gun on your question, but but that that I think is how you lead most effectively is by humble, effective, thought leadership of you know, and to me, that's, that's the Byward

Daniel Franco: 1:14:49

spot on. What's some of the best advice that you've ever received?

Grant Kelly: 1:14:59

Well, This is an interesting one. And it comes back to where we started with the tennis games. But there was a actually, there's a motor, my dad's and actually, his son and I were good friends too called Jack leaker. And this is before internet and everything, and I can still remember. I was going, I was finishing up at school heading into law school, and he said, You know, there's no, this isn't nearly as there's no business school, he goes, but he goes, I feel like you should go to America and do an MBA, I can still see him standing in this little, you know, patio, we had off the side of the tennis court saying to me, and then he goes, and the number one in the world is the Harvard Business School. And, you know, that stuck in my mind for 15 years. 15 years until I went there. Yeah. Wow. And then there are other great advices advice on the way the other great one, which I quote all the time, was from an American guy, Tom barrack, who's a colorful character, and you've got to always understand your mentors, have strengths and weaknesses. But Tom said to me, once I was younger, I was probably a bit cocky. That's because do you know, this financial stuff? Do you think you're actually the best in the world? Well, that's a funny question. And I said, even I thought I was the only one. I said, No, I don't. Right. So I said, No, I don't. It goes, well, let me tell you something. He goes, if you're not the best in the world, and be a nice guy, because if you're not the best in the world, and you're not a nice guy, people will find excuses not to deal with you. Yeah. So the metaphor was, does not have good Yeah, always be approachable, and courteous. And Tom was eternal credit was a thorough gentleman.

Daniel Franco: 1:16:48

In no one likes in his style. No one likes a brilliant jerk. No one likes him.

Grant Kelly: 1:16:53

What's he saying? You know, if you're the smartest guy in the room, you probably in the wrong room? Yeah. You're not pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. And yeah, there's nobody likes a jerk.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:00

Well, smart. terming get you so far. You're right. Like it's the pair of EQ and being able to do with, yeah, the humility and Absolutely. Absolute modesty goes a long way to

Grant Kelly: 1:17:11

Yeah, I agree.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:14

If you can invite three people for dinner. Who are they?

Grant Kelly: 1:17:19

Sir Alex Ferguson. Yeah. Okay. Because it funny I've one of the books that I really resonated with, was managing my life. Which I think is an extraordinary story about the turnaround of Manchester United. And probably, I think, the greatest story that I've seen yet.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:43

I haven't read it. I've read, it's been recommended.

Grant Kelly: 1:17:46

There's two, there's two books on Fergie. There's that one. And then there's another one just called my life and the managing my life was a little bit more Watson. All, you know, is how he is people always talk about the class of 92. What they don't know is he had six years in the wilderness. We had to take a team that won the FA Cup and dismantle it, because they had gotten lucky and they were never going to win the championship. Or the European Cup. So yeah, I actually have actually a signed copy of it, which you know, I think the second one is interesting. i i Not to get political. I think I'd love to talk to him from his Zelinsky. Right. I can you I mean, isn't this the most extraordinary event? In thirty or forty years.

Daniel Franco: 1:18:33

it blows my mind. And yeah, it blows my mind how he was an actor, and yeah, and a comedian and now he's running a country in the middle of the war like that, in its own right is under it's unheard of. Yeah.

Grant Kelly: 1:18:45

And but also, just just the resilience, you know, and, and it's a an actor whose lead has led in a way that may redefine the next 20 30 years credit for the world, you know, and it's, it's, it's stirring stuff. I've been transfixed on this, and I knew we weren't gonna discuss politics down but and the third one, I've got to say, two ladies, my mum and Kirst. Yeah, because firstly, I believe that a dinner party you need to have an equal balance. Secondly, they're both great cooks. And thirdly, the both keep me in line. So when I'm with with Fergie and Zelinksky, I won't get out of control. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:19:26

Brilliant. You got a few points there.

Grant Kelly: 1:19:30

Yeah, well, they'll probably I decide. I decide both from you know,

Daniel Franco: 1:19:34

well done. Bit of a different question for you. If you had a time machine, where would you go?

Grant Kelly: 1:19:44

This is a good question. I would like to go to the United States in 1960. And be part of what John F Kennedy was was trying to do with that country. I think history would have been different had they lived and I think, you know, an extraordinary man and somebody who saved the world from nuclear annihilation, but was obviously a deeply flawed character. But I would love to I would have loved to have been there that period of history

Daniel Franco: 1:20:22

in a position of influence. Yeah.

Grant Kelly: 1:20:25

But but not, you know, I mean, I think there was only one one person, yes. caliber, but but the idealism of and using power constructively, you know, we don't talk enough anymore about, you know, Sub Saharan famine, or we don't talk enough about human rights. You know, there was one period in history, which is full of idealism, and I thought it was a magnificent period. So, the time machine and maybe also, you know, I'd like to go back to 1986 to see that 36 is Invincibles team. bestride Australia, under the leadership of the great man can call who've Kenny's listening. Just a magnificent mentor, actually, to me. And, you know, I mean, there's many periods, but that now on a serious note, I think that period in the US would have been just fantastic.

Daniel Franco: 1:21:13

Yeah, brilliant. If you had one superhero power, Well,

Grant Kelly: 1:21:20

luckily, invisible, invisible, because because then I could just you know, you'd like, like, you Do you sometimes feel like you're in a bit of a goldfish bowl? Yeah, that's just, you know,

Daniel Franco: 1:21:30

it would be actually it's funny, I should have asked you a question about the bit of pressure on your shoulders.

Grant Kelly: 1:21:35

Ah, not really. I mean, I mean, I think, you know, I think he's look, the, the way to deal with pressure is to assume it away to so it doesn't really exist. And yeah, I'm just defining success differently. And I'm not too worried about this. And it doesn't mean you don't care, like all hell about the challenge and the quest but it does mean that you you can sort of you know, fall asleep at 10pm at night and and take a Labradoodle for a walk and not not not sort of worry Yeah, all the time.

Daniel Franco: 1:22:07

Thank you so much for your time. Today Grant and thank you for everything that you're doing a for for Australia and South Australia in regards to the the basketball and the vicinity and, and all the work that you've done in the past. And no doubt all the great stuff you're going to be doing in the future. And it's been great watching your your journey over the over the past few years. And I look forward to seeing seeing more of you as we as we grow.

Grant Kelly: 1:22:32

Thanks, Danny was very kind of you to invite me on so I hope it was it was helpful, and I really enjoyed it. So I think

Daniel Franco: 1:22:39

there was some brilliant pearls of wisdom. Thanks again and make sure you call your mom. Yeah,

Grant Kelly: 1:22:46

right ever another call that I absolutely nobody more important. So

Daniel Franco: 1:22:50

Brilliant. Good on you. Thanks again. Cheers. Cheers, guys. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Or you can check out the show notes if there was anything of interest to you and find out more about us at Synergy iq.com.au. I am going to ask though, if you did like the podcast, it would absolutely mean the world to me if you could subscribe, rate and review. And if you didn't like it, that's alright too. There's no need to do anything. Take care guys. All the best.

Synergy IQ: 1:23:17

Thank you once again for joining us here at creating synergy. It's been great spending this time with you. Please jump on to the synergy IQ Facebook and LinkedIn page where the discussion continues after the show. Join our mailing list so you'll know what's happening next at Synergy iq.com.au. And of course don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. And if you really enjoyed it, please share it with your friends.