Synergy IQ: 0:01

Welcome to Creating synergy where we explore what it takes to transform. We are powered by Synergy IQ. Our mission is to help leaders create world class businesses where people are safe, valued, inspired and fulfilled. We can only do this with our amazing community. So thank you for listening.

Daniel Franco: 0:20

Hey there synergises and welcome back to another episode of The creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco and today we have the one and only Dr. Gemma Munro on the show. Dr. Gemma is a thought leader, a transformational facilitator and an uplifting an award winning speaker with a PhD in performance psychology and a flair for lighting up leaders. She's the winner of the Dunkin prize for speaking and a two time Telstra Businesswoman of the finalist. She's known for being a catalyst for laughter aha moments and wake up calls. Dr. Gemma has spoken to audiences such as Google, Amazon, PayPal, Qantas, Vodafone, and NHS in London. She's inspired over 72,000 people around the world at a keynote at Google headquarters in Silicon Valley, which was live streamed every single Google office across the planet. She's also a classically trained singer and Gemma performed at Westminster Abbey Radio City Music Hall, and two somewhat heartstopping 53,000 screaming fans as a backing vocalist for the Rolling Stones. In this episode, we deep dive into her journey from where she was described as too passionate to be taken seriously as a consultant to starting her own business and building the very well respected Inkling group to now in her new business lighting up leaders, where she's following her mission in helping ignite the spark in leaders all across the world. We also talked about the importance of finding your own lane in life, and how transformative this can be. Gemma then described how she found her own lane. And then we talked to the idea of having parallel lanes in your life, which makes rooms for other passion projects such as music, poetry, or anything else really. We touched on how singing helped her in a speaking career. And she gave us some really great practical advice on what she did to become a better speaker. We then really deep dive into the science and the art of setting vision and making it a reality. We talked about how to be brave with your choices, and Gemma gave us some practical tips on how to control the inner voice and that pesky lizard brain. It was about this time that she decided that she would try to get into the inner workings of my brain, which can make for an amusing listen because it's a bit of a mess up there. We then touched on the importance of taking downtime and creating a space to listen to the signs to avoid burnout. And we talked about so much more. I absolutely know you're gonna love this chat. And if you would like to listen to learn more about any of the other amazing leaders that we've had on the creating synergy podcast and be sure to jump onto our website at SynergyIQ.Com.au or check us out at creating synergy podcast on all the podcast outlets. Excellent. So welcome back to the creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco and today we have the amazing Gemma Munro, Dr. Gemma Munro on the show. Thank you for coming on the show today.

Gemma Munro: 3:40

It's my absolute pleasure to be here, Daniel.

Daniel Franco: 3:43

I'm going to start the podcast off in a slightly different way. I'm just going to rattle off a few of your accolades. So, number one winner of the Duncan prize medal prize for speaking number two to time Telstra Business Woman of the finalist. You've spoken in front of audiences at Google, Amazon Pay Pal cuantas. And many more. You have a PhD in performance psychology and entrepreneur, co founder, previous CEO to the company, your company Inkling group, which is known across the world for lifting the percentage of women in leadership levels. You did a Google Talk for Google themselves. Yeah, right. So actual Google which was which is streamed worldwide. To every Google office across the planet. You performed in Westminster Abbey Radio City Music Hall and saying as a backing vocalist to the Rolling Stones in front of 53,000. Yes, people. You are the founder of lining up leaders now which is your new venture and doing some really amazing things helping leaders find this spark and removing some limiting beliefs and all the above. And on top of this, your a wife, your a mother with two young, beautiful children,

Gemma Munro: 5:13

I should say there just in case my partner freaks out I'm not a wife

Daniel Franco: 5:16

okay. Well, that's the sister

Gemma Munro: 5:19

I'm a long term live in partner, not quite as sexy. In fact,

Daniel Franco: 5:24

it's all the same in the eyes of the law. So that's an amazing background and and history of events that you've you know, things that you've been involved in. It's a little bit of a head wobble going on.

Gemma Munro: 5:38

I think it's funny when when you read it, and I think it's the same with anyone I know you had Dr. Terry Sweeney on and you were just written he's he's a special case.

Daniel Franco: 5:50

He is an amazing, you know, that's how we met. So that's how we got introduced to the podcast. Well, no. Dr. Terry mentioned your name to me.

Gemma Munro: 5:58

We got Yes, yes, no, I've got so much time for him. But you were reading out his list. And it would be the same if someone read out your highlights, you just go, Oh, my goodness. But when you're in it, you're just doing it, it doesn't feel particularly wonderful. It's when you get to the end of it, and you read out you go alright, I actually started, and it was hard, and it was enjoyable. But when you're in it, you don't really think about that.

Daniel Franco: 6:22

100% And you're not, I guess you're not chasing the accolades. You just, it's all part of the value that you're trying to give to the world. Yeah, it

Gemma Munro: 6:31

was it was it has all been part of a broader purpose for me. And then there are times where I was just doing it for fun, or just because I was asked or because I could, but in the end, you'll look back and go, Ah, I see the golden thread. But you weren't necessarily aware of it at that time.

Daniel Franco: 6:49

So your name you've done. You recently did a keynote, we talked the terror. And that's where all this sort of came about. And you and I ended up chatting from there. Yeah. It's like, you know, when you buy a new car, and you just see the name, you want to buy a new car, you see the car everywhere. I think the same thing happened with with me and you I saw you did that talk. And then all of a sudden, your name popped up everywhere. And everyone that I'd spoken to my business partner, everyone in my team, they're like, Yeah, we know. She's a household name how have i not, how have i not pick this up earlier? So tell us a little bit about your story. And how have you become this worldwide phenomenon?

Gemma Munro: 7:34

Oh, thank you for that beautiful introduction. My story started out actually in probably in high school where I had to do a u 12. English project. And you could choose any topic you want. So you could read a whole range of books, and I loved reading. And I realized the topic I was most interested in was success and motivation, and fulfillment and how they all linked and if anything has been a golden thread through my life, I think it's been bad. So I went on to do psychology because I was interested in how the mind ticked and I did my PhD. And I was in academia for a while, and then very quickly realized academics talk to other academics. And in my world, this is not the case for many academics, but in my world, it was very much navel gazing, rather than going out and changing the world. And I wanted to make some small little impact on the world. So I went to executive recruitment and then management consultancy. And it was trial by fire. I actually said that the other day, I still remember crying in the toilets, because it was such a, you can imagine the cloistered protected world of academia. And then suddenly, you're thrust into this competitive, hierarchical 17 to 20 hour days, churn and burn kind of world. And I was a sensitive sausage and still am a little. But my goodness, I learned a lot. And I'm so grateful for it. So that was really where I learned to, to bring together performance psychology, successful film and my interest in that with the corporate world, and and started to see that there was so many opportunities for leaders to feel more lit up. I also started to see the fact that the women who I was coaching because I was doing a lot of performance coaching at that time, would say to me things like, gem, I see the women at the top of my organization, and I see success, and I see achievement, but I don't necessarily see balance, and I don't necessarily see authenticity and fun. And I want those things and so they were bowing out of leadership roles. So after that it was that plus the fact that my daughter only had a 40% chance of making it in utero. And we had procedures on her it was really, really dramatic and traumatic, and there was a moment where I just realized Life's too short to not be doing what you really love and what you think is really important. And life's too short to be working 17 hour days, 50 weeks a year. So I took a step out of management consulting, and I started my first business, Inkling Women, which I just I honestly think we were in the right place at the right time, in that there weren't many doing women's leadership development. And I guess, with my background, and also my background and performance, there was a way of fusing that to create programs that made a huge impact for women. So 60% of the women we work with got promoted within six months, which we were really, really proud of, yeah, it's

Daniel Franco: 10:44

an amazing stat. Yeah, I was gonna rattle that one off.

Gemma Munro: 10:51

And then, from that point, after eight years, I was saying to you the other day, when a business becomes relatively successful, and and medium sized, as opposed to quirky, nimble startup, it becomes about processes and procedures, and that drives me up a wall. And I'm really, I love creating. And I felt like my time in women in leadership and diversity. While I'm so proud of it, and I loved it. It was just done, and I wasn't fired up anymore. And I had an awakening, I left a marriage, I left the business, I sold my half of the business. And then I started what I'm doing now, which is all around, as you said, lighting up leaders and helping them find the spark that was always within them, and to light it or relight it and then to spread that out to the world. So it creates this ripple effect within teams and organizations.

Daniel Franco: 11:42

Brilliant, when you only go back to the time where you started. And there's so much more and I want to talk about the Rolling Stones quickly. But we'll get to that when you started the Inkling group. And you know, you had the obviously the the family concerns with your daughter, which is never nice. And I went through something similar not not to that extent. But we won't need to go into that. We are really interested in your thought process around the creation of the business and what what problem were you looking to solve? You said the women in leadership piece was that something that you'd experienced previously in your management consulting Mottola?

Gemma Munro: 12:27

It is such a great question. And it's so funny, I'm often focused on how I can help others and what's going on for others, but then I forget to go what's actually happening for myself yet. So yes, it absolutely was. It was an environment. And again, actually, it's a fantastic workplaces. So this isn't me, denigrating them in any way. But the nature of consulting, particularly at that time was was very competitive conversations were like, bear, bear, bear bear. And if you were wrong, and you're wrong quickly, and you're called out for being wrong, and it was a difficult environment, and I felt I still remember being being told that I was too passionate to be taken seriously, when I spoke in front of groups. And I tried so hard to hammer out that passion. I'm just gonna be very serious now live within a bar. That's right. And and become that because the, the avatar view lack of the, the ideal consultant was masculine, intellectual versus emotional, very much based on right versus wrong, as opposed to brainstorming and creativity. And after six months, that that was coinciding with my daughter having her issues, and also someone close to me, their two, two year old drowned, and it was this sense of, I can't be myself in this organization. This isn't, I can be a version of myself. Yeah. And I could get away with that. And to the outside world, it looks like I'm doing well, and I'm really happy, but I knew it was like, it was like I was trapped in a bit of a bud. And I just, I the bud was lovely and smelled great. I've taken this analogy way too. But if there was the sense of needing to blossom to shed a snakeskin Yeah, and actually be a little naked and raw and vulnerable and step into who I really am.

Daniel Franco: 14:17

Yeah, I love it. We we are a management and consulting firm, but we were the way I doing exactly. We're trying to do exactly what you were experienced, like the opposite of what you experiencing. We feel that we're a bunch of misfits that have been put together and I think like I've never wanted a suit a day in this in this in this business, you know, where the blazer and chinos and all that sort of stuff and the team, our expectations are completely different of the people that we that we bring into, because we hire great minds. Yeah, we don't hire people who fit a mold. So I really love that you brought that up because it is it is consult Are pigeonholed to be a certain type. And were like, when we talk about solving problems, we are actually trying to solve that problem in itself, we want to be a different type of consulting firms. So

Gemma Munro: 15:10

hats off to you. And I feel like you and I will continue this particular conversation over coffee and wine some other time, because it's actually hard. And I certainly started Inkling with the huge aim for it to be the not the very opposite, but to take the best bits of what consulting can do really well, and discard the rest. And it was incredibly difficult to not have it turn into a stressful busy consulting firm, because in consulting firms, your people and their time are what brings in the revenue and profit. So I really struggled with that. And in the end, I realized, again, I couldn't be the best version of who I was in that business. And again, I'm incredibly proud of it. I'm not denigrating it. But it had become a version of that consulting firm. That's not what I want to and and I've got friends who have consulting firms, and they're struggling with the same issue is how do we actually keep the people in the heart? In this kind of business?

Daniel Franco: 16:13

Yeah. And I'm not. I'm absolutely going through those struggles as well, I think but I think that comes with scale. Yes. As the business scales, the the processes become very important, because it allows, it really allows the less reliance on the directors in the founders and whatnot, and it allows people to pick up and we're where it's supposed to be.

Gemma Munro: 16:39

It does. And I think that the the trap is just to make sure there's not that constantly you scale, you bring on more people, and then you need to feed more people. And it's it's this feeding the beast type scenario. But I do I am actually really passionate about helping to create consulting firms. Not that I do this, but with my friends, and other people in consulting, I think there is a way to do it and to do well, sounds like you're on the right track

Daniel Franco: 17:03

with it. We're trying, it's there, no lack of drying. I really want to talk about the you and I spoke offline. And it's something that really jogged in, in my thought process. We you and you mentioned just before when you said you weren't enjoying the business aspect of it, yeah, we want to continue to add value. I love the business aspect of it. But I know so many of my business partner included, she loves the adding value, the creation of content, they're getting out there speaking with people and inspiring people in the same in the same breath that you have basically said as well. What was it about the business pace that puts you off. And you've mentioned to me in the woods, where if you found your own lane, and you wanted to go down that path, as opposed to finding the opposite lane or whatever it might be? Yeah, we talked about,

Gemma Munro: 18:01

I'd love to I still have this distinct memory of being we were selected to be part of KPMG is elevate 61 That takes 10 Australian businesses and takes them to the US to learn how to pitch to give them pitching experience. And to actually give them a pitching audience so they can get investment and become bigger internationally in particularly in the US. And I remember hearing one Australian founder say that American investors love Australian founders, because they're, they're like cockroaches, they're willing to push shit uphill and eat shit to actually succeed. And in that moment, I went, I'm not, I'm not willing to eat shit to 60. And I saw in the startup world, and in the growing a business as opposed to growing people and I'm so into growing people and growing myself but growing a business. It to me, there are some people who are born for it. And I have the brain to do it. And I can do it reasonably well. But it doesn't make my socks roll up and down. You know, it's not, it's just not, it doesn't align with my strengths. And I believe why I'm here. And I think I was chatting to you when we talked offline about the fact that it felt like I'd found my almost lame like, Ah, this is so close. You know, I'm helping women and I'm growing the gender balance at leadership level and I'm growing this organization and it grew it into a multi million dollar business and lots of people and I love the people part of it. I love the leadership part of it. The looking at profit and loss statements as like, oh, yeah, it just, it didn't like me. So, for me The the way of finding your own lane, I think it's a, you do start off with this big lane where it's like, oh, this is all feeling okay. And over time you hone your strengths and your passions and what you think you're here for. And it's like the lane gets narrower and narrower. And I know so many people who are in their almost lane and it feels good enough. But they know there's something more than meant to be doing or different they're meant to be doing and it's a big jump to go actually, I'm really good at this. And I've got success through this. It is a big jump to go. Still not quite my lane. But I also know that making that brave choice of going This isn't my actual lane and then going for it. For me that's made all the difference in my happiness and fulfillment. And even though it's less important to me, but even financial success that has all come from going no, this is my lane, I'm unapologetic about that.

Daniel Franco: 20:52

I love the terminology almost lane. What is your thought process around? Well, actually, let me rephrase is how many people are playing in the almost lane or driving in the almost Lane versus the actual lane? In your opinion,

Gemma Munro: 21:08

I would what the figure that came to my mind was 90%, I think 1% Or in the almost loan. And I think I don't want to get too esoteric. But I do think everyone has the potential and the capability and the little gentle nudges from that small still voice within to say, Oh, honey, it's not quite right. And sometimes circumstances prevent people acting on that. And then sometimes it's just a matter of I am terrified. And it's so understandable.

Daniel Franco: 21:41

In my opinion, the the almost line is a much more comfortable line, because of the risk of starting your own business. And to your point. I, I know so many people with great ideas who are fantastic and what might be in the arts, or it might be in the entertainment industry. But their thought process is always around money. And I don't believe I can generate enough or I don't have the ability to or don't have enough in the bank account now to take that risk. So the almost line is one that I'll sort of just stick with for the moment, and then hopefully something changes down there. So the hopefully something changes is the most critical piece in the almost lane, if we want to. And I've done it, I've moved into the right lane and into the lane that I absolutely love. But I believe that if you want to move into that lane, you actually have to start now. And that is the reading of the books, it's connecting with the right people, it's getting the mentor or whatever it might be, whatever path you feel is best, but it's you have to start doing something little right now.

Gemma Munro: 22:48

I couldn't agree more because it's that even the tiny little baby steps of Okay, so if I was to move into my right lane, what would that feel like? What would that look like? What would a day be like? And as you say, reading books and doing things like if the right lane is starting business, which I don't always think it is, but if it is, what would I call it? And let me do some back of the envelope. This is what I did. Actually, when I stepped out of management consulting, I did some back of the envelope calculations on what do I need to pay the mortgage? Because we had two mortgages, and two kids under three and my now ex husband wasn't bringing in a regular salary. So really was this What are you doing? And I would say that the choices I'm most proud of in my life, or when people around me would have there were too polite probably to say it, but some of them would have been thinking she's absolutely being an idiot. She's on a good wicket here. Yeah, but I didn't want a good wicked. I wanted the right loan. Yeah, I had

Daniel Franco: 23:49

this same. I had the same comments thrown my way. I worked for government in a very, very low paid government role. Yeah. And then took the step out. And coming from an Italian background, whose family whose security is a family value, right? Yeah, being safe. And

Gemma Munro: 24:10

I think it's hard because our our preference, particularly the preference of the amygdala, which is this part of the brain that's all about our safety and security and staying small and safe. Our preference is to have this 12 Point Plan, that we know exactly what's going to happen. And in five years, it looks like this. And in two months, you're guaranteed to pay the mortgage and it never happens that way. And I know for me, if I look back five years ago, there's no way I would have thought I'd be here. And I also know that we've got this almost this myth in our society that says we need to be focusing on fixing our weaknesses and getting better at our weaknesses instead of going actually, what are my strengths and how can I maximize those and I know for me, when you start to I was When you start to play to your strengths and maximize them, you that's where you become world class. And that's where you find your lane. And that's when the money starts to flow. So I know if I'd stayed in my almost Lane in terms of financial security, I would have made a good living, but I actually think I've met it making a much better one now. And it's not just a living, it's a life. And it just lights me up.

Daniel Franco: 25:21

Fantastic. Space seen in front of 53,000. Yeah, people. Yeah. So you singing career previously.

Gemma Munro: 25:34

I'm always hesitant to call it a career because I did it through uni. So it kept me afloat. I did all the way from when I was six, to when my business got too busy. And I've just started singing again, for the first time, actually, since the stones, funnily enough. But I'm also hesitant because I see these people doing really cool things in music in rock and pop and jazz, and I was in classical music, folk music. Oh, they're not particularly I love them, but they're not particularly sexy. But yeah, I spent my young adulthood touring Europe in the US. And we did a bit in Asia and Australia, going around and singing in chamber ensembles, mostly. And it's, it was just a delight. I loved it.

Daniel Franco: 26:26

Was that not your line thing?

Gemma Munro: 26:29

That is such a good question. That was so it's funny, I this. Oh, it's such a good question. I get excited because even though I'm passionate about everyone finding their lane, I also think we don't want to over niche. And this is this is to paradoxical positions, which is apparently the ability to hold that as apparently the definition of maturity. But I do think from, from a purpose, perspective, a career perspective, being in your lane and knowing what that is, is so wonderful. But I'm also aware that yes, I'm a speaker and a facilitator of literature progress, but I also write poetry and I sing, and I love to grow vegetables, we are human beings. So from a career perspective, I think it's wonderful to say, here are my strengths. Here's my purpose. Here's my lane. But from a life perspective, I think we need to be exploring anything that gives us that sense of I'm being refueled and singing for me has always been part of that.

Daniel Franco: 27:30

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. You don't, you don't have to be, or the land doesn't need to be business only. Right. The music part for you is a lane that you enjoy in your personal time.

Gemma Munro: 27:43

It's a parallel lane. And it's so interesting, because I do think that the corporate world and picking LinkedIn versus Instagram, for instance, on Instagram, I will publish the occasional poem. And I, when I journal, I'll sometimes channel or channel my older soul for my higher wiser self, and I'll share some musings. And I was even though I pride myself on authenticity and making brave choices, I struggled to put that up on LinkedIn, because it's like, well, no, you need to see me as a very serious business person corporate. Yes. And we I think that's actually one of the reasons organizations are struggling at the moment is they're not evolving with humanity, humanity has evolved to the max doesn't look like it, but humanity has evolved tremendously. And corporations are still using this 1980s 1990s way of working and sometimes 1950s style of leadership to lead these humans who are wanting freedom, authenticity, courage, creativity, and they're not getting it through work, which is why we've got the great resignation. So actually, I ended up publishing a poem on LinkedIn just going

Daniel Franco: 28:50

public. And well, I

Gemma Munro: 28:53

think so. My posts on public speaking do better. That's fine. No, it's not about how well it did. But it was something for me to go no, I'm a poet and

Daniel Franco: 29:02

you just created a new line. You know what I'm thinking of Ron, have you ever seen that to the movie Inside Out?

Gemma Munro: 29:08

I love that. It's one of my kids love it.

Daniel Franco: 29:11

I actually one of my favorite Yeah,

Gemma Munro: 29:13

Did you cry at the end?

Daniel Franco: 29:15

No. I have shed a tear Absolutely. I it because anyway, I'm not going to go into watch it a tear, but it's more than what went through my mind right now. In that movie, you had the yellow ball. That was joy, the blue ball, which was sadness, the red ball, which was anger, but I kind of thinking they're the memories that you're creating and the enjoyment that comes from those memories in which is I'm looking at them as lanes, so to speak. I don't know in a roundabout way. I feel like it's all works in the same sort of way. Anyway, I think it does do the singing piece, do you believe that helped you in your speaking career?

Gemma Munro: 30:02

Yes, I really do. And I was only reflecting on this a little while ago, perhaps because I have gone back to singing after a fair bit of a break, that there is something about when you get up and perform, you have to engage, there's no excuse for not engaging, and you have to take your audience on a on a journey of light and shade. And you have to leave your problems at the stage door. And I do think a lot of speakers will, they've got great content, but they're not, they're not putting on an authentic show for their people. So that they're, that they're, they lack stage craft. So I think for me, there was something about the singing, and also the ability to use my voice. So I never worry about losing my voice or anything like that, because I've got the training. But there was something about learning stage craft early. And also, when I get up on stage, I kind of go, Oh, I've done this before. I've been doing this since I was little, it used to freak me out a little. But now I feel comfortable.

Daniel Franco: 31:11

It's your home. Okay, now, the speaking bit is an area of interest. You're your award winning or prize winning? Speaker. We'll get into that for one sec. But I want to actually talk about the process of getting up and speaking it's something that I'm interested in. It's something that we do we get up? Did you train yourself? In the speaking game, not the singing game, you had that? The sound and the the understanding of how to hold yourself, but you learned from from singing? What did you do to become a better speaker?

Gemma Munro: 31:48

Oh, what a great question. And I actually for many years, I taught public speaking, and I know the techniques I've learned. But for me, I need to paint a picture that the very first workshop I delivered was four hours long. And I was so terrified that I learned it word for word, because I was so scared, the right words wouldn't come out. So a big part of what I learned was around, firstly, hooking the audience in at the start with what's in it for them, so that they're listening. But secondly, structuring it so that and even if I've got a three hour masterclass or a one hour keynote, you'll only see me with five points or so. Because I've realized that it needs to be structured beautifully. So the audience knows exactly where you're going. But then the joy is in being present and allowing what wants to come through to come through and that's where you have engagement. So I definitely learned that I learned how to, if not conquer, then certainly minimize my fear by talking to that little voice in my head that says, you're going to wet your pants Gemma, you're gonna fall over, you're gonna completely stuff up

Daniel Franco: 33:01

to the judgment thing in there as well that they're not going to like what I'm saying

Gemma Munro: 33:05

is it's so interesting, that still follows me, I think we all have this thing, this, this voice in our head, that will say you're not good enough, or you don't have anything of value to offer. And then it happened when I did the talk at Google headquarters. And then it happened. Just recently, I gave a talk with Dr. Sweeney at Amazon, to some of the top leaders in South Australia, including the premier. And they're still even though I know what I do is valuable. They're still that voice of are they going to have her or before or, and it was interesting, Terry, and I caught up for coffee afterwards. And he said, You know, when I thought I knew there was going to be motivational speaker there. And I don't think you'll might be telling this story. And he thought, probably just more, let's get you inspired stuff that I have heard before. But he was really surprised. And he took a lot away in terms of making brave choices, which is the topic and I figure if Terry can take away something around making brave choices with the number of brave choices he's made. So for me, it's actually I just now watch that little voice in my head and just go ah, honey, like I get it. I know why you're there. You don't want me to get up. And that's okay. But I'm actually in the driver's seat right now. And I know what I have to say is, is our value.

Daniel Franco: 34:21

And is that the media is exactly what the lizard brain, the lizard brain, the lizard brain telling us that don't get up because you might fail.

Gemma Munro: 34:30

That's right. It's the whole point of the lizard brain is to keep you safe and small and hidden. And so getting up and speaking is the opposite of that. So every time the lizard brain is going to do a version of freaking out. And I always say the lizard brain it's so it's amazing because the lizard brain will tell you that you are terrible at what is actually your greatest strength. So the kindest people in the world have a lizard brain that says you are such a selfish cow. And the smartest people in the world have a lizard brain that will say to You're not smart enough, because how brilliant Yeah, if you if your lizard brain can convince you that you are never going to get good at the thing that you are absolutely the best at, then you will stay, you will never meet your potential you will stay small and hidden. But even though it's sophisticated in that way, it's not sophisticated enough to be able to tell the difference between oh my god, there's a saber toothed Tiger, and a slightly confronting work situation. So even getting up to speak or ask a question. And a lot of people get tongue tied asking a question at a conference. And it's not life threatening, but the lizard brain doesn't know that. And so it makes you sweat and shake and palpitate your heart palpitate. And it's really unpleasant. But there are ways around it. And I do a lot of teaching of that.

Daniel Franco: 35:39

Yeah. Can you give us one tip? So for? Actually, let's wait on that tip. Sure. The lizard brain is the first brain that we evolved from right. And we've had two other parts that have grown and we've evolved over time. How did we ever evolve if this thing was holding us back all the time?

Gemma Munro: 36:00

I don't have the neurological answer for that. No, I have more.

Daniel Franco: 36:06

In your opinion, expert,

Gemma Munro: 36:09

I think we are we are we're programmed to do this to expand and contract, expand and contract and we grow and then we go, and we go back in our shows a bit. But I also think we're programmed to, to keep growing and to keep seeking and to keep progressing. And because that's actually what gives us the joy. So we don't like the discomfort of it. But we do like the joy of it and the outcomes of it. So even when the lizard brain is going you can't do that. There's a part of us that goes, actually yes, he can. Yeah. And and the more we can learn to listen to that part, and I think we do listen to that part. And we then have experienced listening to that part and going, that worked. And yes, it was scary. But I'm so glad I did it, the more we can keep pushing and leaning into that discomfort.

Daniel Franco: 36:57

Excellent. Now, we were talking about what you did to become a better speaker.

Gemma Munro: 37:05

Yes, way back seven years ago.

Daniel Franco: 37:09

We went down a rabbit hole. So what what did? What is a tip that you potentially could actually no, I skipped over, we were going to talk about what is a tip to control the lizard brain? And then and then we can move back up that rabbit hole. Yeah, what will we what would be a way where we can control because I find that something that I really struggle with the imposter syndrome just screams at me, I have the ability to fight it and move through it. But my body doesn't. Like my body just stays in that moment. And then my brain is working in a different frequency.

Gemma Munro: 37:42

Yeah. So can I ask you, Daniel, and just to be really vulnerable here in front of everyone?

Daniel Franco: 37:49

I've been there a few times gaps is getting the tissues.

Gemma Munro: 37:57

When that part of your brain says nasty things to you, what sorts of things does it say?

Daniel Franco: 38:07

I don't know if they're nasty? I would say it's it is definitely. Actually, I'll rephrase this. I feel like my lizard brain kicks in more. So when I don't know, the topic as well as I believe I should know the Tombi.

Gemma Munro: 38:25

Yes. And so if you're tuning into what it's saying to you, so obviously you have a feeling of fear and inadequacy.

Daniel Franco: 38:33

inaccuracy and lack of preparation is always a big one at once. Yeah.

Gemma Munro: 38:38

And what's it? Does it actually have a voice? Does it start talking to you like, I can't believe you, you're not prepared enough? What does it say?

Daniel Franco: 38:46

Yeah, I would say you're not prepared enough is definitely in there. People are gonna, people are gonna notice. Yeah, something about you? Well, people are gonna think that you're not up to expertise, because I think that way about other people. Yes.

Gemma Munro: 39:06

Are you the sort that has high expectations of yourself and others? Correct. Okay, your firstborn. Second. Okay, that's interesting. So a lot of firstborns, and I won't go too much into this. But one of the core beliefs that the lizard has is you're not enough. So you're not prepared enough. You're not enough to impress these people, you're not smart enough, etc. And for some reason, firstborn kids tend to gravitate towards that. But it is such so going back to what I said before of your lizard will always tell you that you are insanely bad at whatever it is that you are best at. So I know the amount of preparation you do for your podcasts. I know the amount of pride you take in your work. Your lizard is basically saying a complete Porky pie to you.

Daniel Franco: 39:58

We had this conversation before. The podcast, this exact conversation about Yeah. Yeah.

Gemma Munro: 40:06

I don't know anyone who has prepared as well as you have for a podcast. So you can see once you start to see oh my gosh, my lizard is actually lying. And the the reason it lies to us is because it cannot accurately think saber toothed tigers, it makes things up to keep you small to keep you hidden enter to stop you from actually shining out into the world. So one of the tips I would give to you is to imagine your lizard as a little character. So an animal if you had to guess, or if you like gut feel is my lizard an animal or human?

Daniel Franco: 40:44

It would be an animal. Okay? Something in a chameleon?

Gemma Munro: 40:47

Okay, great. So you've got it already? Fabulous. Is it colored? Or

Daniel Franco: 40:51

could be it's chameleon? Yes, no.

Gemma Munro: 41:02

Chameleon, it's sitting on your shoulder. And the reason I get people to imagine their lizards as a character is it. It separates you from your lizard. So most people are fused with their lizard brain. And they think their lizard brains, the fount of all wisdom and knowledge. And of course, it's not. It's a separate part of your brain that will never give you the credit you deserve for being well prepared, and smart and curious and interested in all the things you actually are. And my second tip with the lizard is always to treat it like a beloved tantruming, three year old. So I'm sure you've had a tantruming three year old before.

Daniel Franco: 41:38

Yes, yes. And you haven't through that phase. But yeah,

Gemma Munro: 41:42

me too. But a tantrum a three year old all actually wants is to know that you're in charge, and to be told that in a way that soothes the beloved tantruming three year old. So actually, if you've picked your lizard as a character, and you're you can even give it a name and say, It's alright mate, you're okay, I so get why you're acting up. But you don't need to. I've got this. And you can feel a little a little bonkers having conversations in your head. But funnily enough, as soon as you actually picture your lizard going, you're acknowledging That's right. And you're making it feel safe as opposed to going Shut up, which is when the tantrum a three year old, has a little bit of a more of a tantrum,

Daniel Franco: 42:25

it's on my my brain is going really miles per hour now, because we literally have this conversation before every single podcast Gabs like, how are you going? How are you feeling? I said, I'm not prepared. I'm not prepared. And she goes, then you say that every time you said that this morning, you say is every time so not prepared

Gemma Munro: 42:44

Gabs, now the question is down. Is that your lizard talking? Dan will go. Oh, yeah.

Daniel Franco: 42:51

So now you your job now is to hold me accountable. Which is great. I need that. Okay, we've solved my problems in this conversation. Thank you. And watch out world here I can now let's talk back to speaking I really want to learn some of the tips and tricks on becoming a better speaker. Yeah, those who listen to this podcast, or there's a lot of leaders who listened to the podcast, so they're always looking for ways to improve their speaking, can you just a couple of tips and tricks on how to become a better speaker?

Gemma Munro: 43:24

I can. So the first one is to take time to figure out the What's in it for your audience. Okay, so a lot of people will just start talking and they will speak from what's exciting them and what they know, as opposed to going, what do my audience want to know. And as soon as you've got the what's in it for them that with it. It's amazing. And you can see, sometimes you need to spend 2030 minutes on it. And when you get it, you know, and the question to know that you ask yourself to know if you've got it is, do I give a shit if I'm standing in my audience's shoes? And I hear I'm talking about this today from a speaker does the audience go, I have to listen. It's amazing. When you actually hone in on that, you get even more excited about what you're going to say. And the structure of your presentation reveals itself as like, Okay, if that's what's in it for them, then what I need to talk about is this and this and this. And then you avoid the horrendous thing of death by PowerPoint where you just have to keep skipping through slides because you put way too much detail in it. You cut down on your content, and you get excited to be there. So your nerves go. So that is like a keystone trick that you can that you can use. The other thing I would say no sorry.

Daniel Franco: 44:36

Yeah, nerves go from the simple fact that you're trying to please is that what you're saying?

Gemma Munro: 44:42

Not trying to please the lizard that tends to say to us, you're not good enough and you've got nothing of value to offer. That's so much quieter when where we have that realization of a need to know So this is actually going to be really useful for them. So it's like we get ourselves out of the way. Most speakers are not most speakers, there are a lot of people and sign a stand when we speak, we make it about ourselves because we are terrified. But actually, if you can, when you find the with it, it's all about the other person. And it's like, you don't matter anymore. So whenever I speak, it's not about me. Yes, I'm racking up as my authentic self, but it's about how can I serve this audience. And then the other thing I'll say, and I've, I've got probably 12 tips I'd love to share with you. But just in terms of another quick one is to make sure you're engaging them with your eyes from the get go. So actually, look, each of them, there are 300, it's hard, but look as many people in the eyes and hold eye contact. Because when you do that, suddenly you're just having conversation. It's like you're with your mates at a pub. And it becomes authentic, as opposed to scanning and performing. So a lot of people come up and it's like, I need to be vignette off, rounded out, absolutely Pitch Perfect. But then you lose all sense of humanity and authenticity. So if you can just have a conversation with your eyes making contact with the others. Yeah, it makes a difference. And it's amazing. Because even if you reach only 20 people in your your talk, and there are 100 people in the audience, the other 80 Know that you are connected, and they're connected with you. I don't know how it works, but it does.

Daniel Franco: 46:22

Yeah, it's something about being in the same room with people do you find that the online world that we find ourselves in now do you struggle more so online than what you do? Speaking in person,

Gemma Munro: 46:35

I prefer this world, you know, I'm possibly a bit of a strange breed being an introvert, I quite like being at home in my Aggies and my elasticised parents and looking at a camera and I have with the another thing for speakers is to learn the art of looking at a green and my lighter green light on my in my sorry, my life, a green light in on my Mac, and actually engaging with that as if it's a person, okay. But there is something about being with a crowd and feeding off their energy, and you're giving your energy you feel the exchange more, what I would say is online, I never use slides because people switch off. So it's just me. And I think that does make a bit of a difference.

Daniel Franco: 47:21

Do you manage your servers, we're moving to the online world, which I didn't actually have to manage your timeframes different from an online point of view. So if you are running a program,

Gemma Munro: 47:34

yes, there's more. So if I'm doing a keynote, I will be getting the I don't like just talking at an audience. So if I'm running a keynote in person, I will be getting the audience to have some interaction between themselves. And then at the end, I'll allow time for q&a. When I'm doing online keynotes or master classes. It's actually about interacting as a group via the chat function or unmuting. So there's actually a lot more, because what I don't want to do is wait for q&a till the end. So there's a lot more checking in who's got questions so I can make sure everyone's engaged and actually setting them very clear task. Now I'd like you to write down this now like so there. They've got things to do. It's not just a matter of being at home and you could check your email.

Daniel Franco: 48:21

Yeah, that's great. Do the we've had a previous in a previous podcast a couple of weeks ago, we had a gentleman by the name of Binjiang on the show. He's an international keynote speaker. He travels the world. And he's a magician that turned keynote speaker so he's got this really unique style, very entertaining podcast. He talked about sitting in front of a camera and practicing in front of a camera. Do you suggest that as an

Gemma Munro: 48:52

absolutely do and you feel like a nincompoop? You feel like an absolutely numpty. But if you can watch yourself back. And the idea is I always picture as one of my best friends or an end or even one tip I give is if your kids are running up to you. So for those who've got kids or who've got young kids in their lives and you come home or you go to their house and they run up the hall to you as mommy Daddy, you don't greet them with a are Hi honey. Yeah, you greet them with a high and it's that energy in the eyes that we need to capture when we're on video. And if you can record yourself and then watch that back, you'll see if you've got it or not. As opposed to completely dead. Where it's like yeah, I'm here but no one's really home.

Daniel Franco: 49:37

Yeah, absolutely. Lining up ladies. Yeah, is the world that you are embarking on you say you found your lane and, and all things all things greater happening for you. Tell us about what you're doing there and sparking people's lives and helping them break down some bad habits and limiting beliefs. You've already got rid of one of mine. So let's talk more about that. Maybe we can work on it. Maybe we can make this a therapy session. I,

Gemma Munro: 50:15

yeah, the concept of lining up leaders came to me because for a few years now ever since the upheaval of leaving a marriage and selling my business and actually going, what is it, I'm here to do, I kept picturing everyone I met as this beautiful shining lamp. And there were lamps of different sizes, and different colors, and different shapes. But all of them had this gorgeous lamp that was shining, and always shining. And then I also pictured that over most people's lamps, there were just these dusty blankets or dust and debris that had been thrown over them throughout the years. So it could be an old story that you've been telling yourself, since you were seven years old, or a belief that's really holding you back, or a behavior that you want to shift, but you just can't shift, these blankets kind of get in the way of our light. And the number one thing I'm seeing in workplaces across the world is everyone is so overwhelmed insert in terms of time, stress, exhaustion, they are on this hamster wheel of overwhelm, and too many things on their to do list in too many meetings, that there's not that much time to remove the blankets or to work out how to remove the blankets. And over the years, people have forgotten that there is that light within them that's never switched off. And for me, for whatever reason, I seem to have this ability to help awaken such a bit of an F word, but to help people go, Ah, I do have that light in me it it was there all along? Yes, that aha moment. And that just that aha, aha moment alone causes ridiculously fast and easy and joyful transformation, which is kind of the game I mean, but on top of that, what I love to give people with is leave people with bigger pardon is practical tools and tricks. It's like a suite of tools that they can use to identify what are the blankets that are holding me back? And how do I shed those blankets so that light can shine? And then how do I want to shine my light so that I go, I reached the end of my life going that was my life, and I'm so lit up and I feel so lit up by it, but also so that I can spot the light in others. And when you start sparking the light and others and you can imagine this in an organizational setting, and most of the time I'm working with corporates or entrepreneurs, it's like the domino effect of bubbles. And the the the result is large scale culture change. But it's actually done one individual heart and mind at a time.

Daniel Franco: 53:10

We the blankets theory, is it like an onion where you peel off one blanket at a time? Or can you just grab the one from the bottom? And

Gemma Munro: 53:20

I think it can be both I know that grabbing the one from the bottom and they all go that can actually be really tough. So some people have spontaneous awakening moments or or some grief happens in their life. And it just all goes. I think the gentle a form is to go, Ah, there's another blanket. Oh, there's another blanket. But I know you can do both.

Daniel Franco: 53:43

So I'm a leader of an entrepreneur startup. And I've come to you and I say to Gemma, I need some help. I've got some limiting beliefs. Yeah. Is that a conversation? Or do you just how does how does one embark on working with you?

Gemma Munro: 53:58

So it's, it's really interesting, I used to do individual coaching, I don't anymore because what lights me up is actually creating that ripple effect on scale. So it's this weird paradoxical thing where I'm waking up individuals. I was once called the chief awakening officer. That's kind of my role in life. But I'm helping people see their own individual Spark, but I'm working with groups to do it. And that's where I get my joy as well. So the conversation is, Jim, I've got a team that I want to uplift an organization. I want to uplift an audience. I want to uplift can you come and speak or design a leadership program to help us uplift ourselves as individuals and then have a ripple effect on the culture as well?

Daniel Franco: 54:42

Yeah, wow. So what would the what would one of those programs look like?

Gemma Munro: 54:48

So there are a few I do a number of keynotes. I do a keynote on making brave choices in the midst of change. I do one on setting a vision and making it stick But in terms of how I tend to work with teams and organizations, I've got a program called uplift, that is really about uplifting an entire division and entire organization by working with every single person in that division or organization. So it's a series of masterclasses. It's having me as a coach in your pocket to go, I'm having trouble. And then there's a library of video logs that they can refer to when they're having an Oh, crap moment. There's a personal trajectory project that people undertake, and a way of having accountability to that there is a retreat in the middle for those that want that sort of thing. So you can work with me for three months or 12 months, it's all about an SRE. The other thing I should say is those programs are sanely, tailored to each of the individuals and the organizations so that you go, here's what we want to achieve by uplifting our people. How do we get there, and then the program is tailored to make sure that's an inevitability.

Daniel Franco: 56:01

Sounds fantastic. The making brave choices jumped out at me when you said that. So I'm just going to run with that one for the moment. Yeah. Talk to us about what you would speak about, what do you speak about any keynote about making brave choices? And how can we all get better at making brave choices? Because I know, you know, we're talking about the amygdala in the brain and the lizard in mind that sounds like it's all aligned,

Gemma Munro: 56:27

that keynote is around why we should make brave choices. And then why we don't. So we should, because actually, if you look back on our lives, the things we're most proud of, have always involved making a brave choice. But we don't for three reasons. And I actually talk through the biology of why we don't talk about the fact that our lane lanes, our brains are lazy. And our bodies are fearful. And our minds are terrified. And I give people a series of tools that they can go away with, to actually lean into that, making a brave choice. And to train our brains and our bodies to feel less uncomfortable. It's like going to the gym, you know, and picking up a weight. You don't do it once and go my biceps are done. Yeah. But I give people the choice. To over time, learn that making a brave choice is actually It feels wonderful. And my daughter, she's just about to turn 11. But from the age of six, she would say to me, Mommy, I'm feeling excited and terrified all at once. And that's the way I know that something amazing is going to happen is when you've got those two things of joy and discomfort. That's where we lead our lives. And yes, it's uncomfortable. And yes, it's making a brave choice each time. But what we want to avoid is getting to the end of our lives, or even midway through our lives and having to make a ginormous brave choice because we haven't made them along the way. So that keynotes about teaching people to make the small brave choices as we go. So you do get to the end of your life and go what a ride. And it was mine. And I felt like I contributed what I was here to do

Daniel Franco: 58:14

such a wise thing for a six year old slash 11 year old to say yes, she's

Gemma Munro: 58:20

she's a bit of a special one. I remember walking to kindy with her, she was three she said, Mommy, it's such a beautiful world, the world just loves us so much. We just came out that way.

Daniel Franco: 58:33

I'm gonna get a signature. Yeah. She's a little girl in the entrepreneurship world, really understand what your daughter actually said and the excitement and the discomfort is every day in as a leader in business, I should actually not just entrepreneur, but leaders in business, it is a uncomfortable position to be in you have people working with you and around you and whatever it might be. Why would anyone want to be a leader?

Gemma Munro: 59:11

Okay, so I think there are a couple of reasons that I once saw a cartoon of a month in the life of an entrepreneur or a leader, and I've never seen anything more accurate and I just need permission to swear so I can go That's all right. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 59:27

It was really

Gemma Munro: 59:30

kids around I am about to

Daniel Franco: 59:33

roll that out to you. They

Gemma Munro: 59:34

had this series of pictures of this I think it was a little mouse and at the top of the picture on most days he was going oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck and then occasionally there was like hell yeah. And that's why we do it. It's for the Hell yeah, moment. Yeah, intoxicating. And I also think in terms of being a leader, there is something about being the architect act of other people's careers or something you're building into the world that makes a difference in the world that you look back on and go, Okay, I actually did make a difference. And that doesn't feel necessarily intoxicating, but it feels good and, and right and meaningful and fulfilling. Alright, that's

Daniel Franco: 1:00:21

a really big reason why I started my own business was, I was so unenthused, about leadership in general and the way people were treated, I have a government background, I have a private and government background, I should say. And I never really found the mold. That was exciting. So I remember the one of the first reasons why I started the business was to create a world that was to create a business that people wanted to work for, right, and where they could come and be themselves. And really feel part of the team and be noticed, and all the above. And I might not always get that right. But I think that is the most exciting thing. You create a community of like minded people coming together and just trying to do some great in the world.

Gemma Munro: 1:01:10

It's wonderful. And I love your mission of making sure and I won't have the wording right, but making sure people feel safe in the workplace. And and part of safe is feeling like you can be who you are, you can rock up as yourself. And there are so many workplaces where you do feel like you have to put on an armor to come into work. And you never first of all, that's exhausting. Because pretending to be other than who you are is incredibly tiring. But secondly, you're never going to get discretionary effort or that sense of where that that sense of weenus you know, where we're working together on something amazing that when I when I look back, those those moments where you're in a team and doing something amazing together, that that is an Oh, hell a hell yes. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:01:54

Yeah, there's a lot of moments going on. Every days, I think we experienced one of those. The the question around leadership, then for me becomes if if entrepreneurs are starting businesses, and you know, everyone's got their own drivers, whether it be money trying to change the world, there's new technology, everyone is that they're in a different level of leadership, some who have no idea what good leadership looks like some who know, there are some gurus out there who everyone aspires to be like and wants to work under all the above. Why is it in them that the majority of people are poor at leadership?

Gemma Munro: 1:02:35

I think social learning theory has something to do with it, where so many of us have had poor leaders, and then we get into leadership positions and go, Oh, well, that's how it should be done. And even if we have a vision of doing it differently, if we're in a culture where that's how things are done, and that's how you're rewarded, it's really hard to break out of that. It's, you know, our minds are open limbic systems, which means moods are contagious and ways of working are contagious. And if you're in a system that doesn't actually allow you to lead the way you do, it takes a lot of effort to create a new pathway and do that.

Daniel Franco: 1:03:16

So we've built bad habits on the back of other people's bad habits,

Gemma Munro: 1:03:20

we've built bad habits on the back of other people's bad habits. Absolutely. And current workplaces, the way they're set up, tends to be around back to back meetings, putting out fires. Not having time to think strategically about the kind of leader you want to be or how you want to develop your people. It's just get into work, 10 hours of overwhelm, and then wind down with Netflix and wine at the end and then repeat, you know, ad nauseum. So yes, it's about writing off the back of others bad habits of the leaders that came before us. But I also think we are time poor, and we're not taking that time to actually or we're not able to take that time to focus on what sort of leaders do we want to become?

Daniel Franco: 1:04:09

Do you feel like it's a big part of his also actually probably backs up to what you're saying and the social proof of what's come before us? We don't actually know what great leadership is. Yeah. And what a great leader does. And that's why it's poor. It's not so much that these people want to be bad leaders, or they want to be poor leaders, I should say, as opposed to bad poor leaders.

Gemma Munro: 1:04:39

Yeah, it again, it's a it's a paradox, because I think there is an abundance of leadership literature out there that says do this, do that, do this, do that. So sometimes it's actually overwhelming. Yeah. And I think because of that, you've got passionate people trying to emulate people who are 100 miles from who they are As a person, so part of being a good leader is actually that reflection time of, yes, I know I've done my research. I know this works. But if I was to ask myself, What do I look like as an ideal leader, if others were to be led by me, how would I lead them in a way that sparks them is also true to who I am as a person. And these are deep and complex questions that take time and like I was saying before, we can be time poor so it to me leaders, we do we we promote people up the ranks, and we never give them the chance to spend quality time on what sort of leader are you? What is the leadership legacy you want to leave? What is the how do you want people to feel after they have been led by you? What do you want them to achieve after they've been led by you? Those questions are all important and we're not asking ourselves.

Daniel Franco: 1:05:52

So for anyone to feel after they've been led by you. That's a great one. Your talk about visioning. Yeah. And then we do a lot in that visioning space as well. And you and I've talked about vision, I think we're very aligned with, you know, wanting the world to be fulfilled, inspired safe, all the above. You then help businesses set that in motion by working on their mission and their piece within the puzzle? Can we talk about the so the visioning piece?

Gemma Munro: 1:06:25

Yeah, so most of the time, and I have worked with businesses, I've got a wonderful friend Mia Hansen, and we collaborate to help businesses set a leadership vision, or a vision for the business. And I love to help people on that. I also love to help individuals set a vision that completely lights them up. And I think a lot of times, so whether it's a business vision or a personal vision, the same thing applies, we will get into a space of right, I need to set a vision now and our brains are in beta mode, and we're in analytical mode and what we end up with is a common sensical. Okay, so this is the logical next step for me. But actually, the sort of vision that inspires us is the one that you think this is only 20%. doable, but oh my gosh, can you imagine if this came true,

Daniel Franco: 1:07:12

was the B hag right?

Gemma Munro: 1:07:14

What? Oh, yeah. big, hairy audacious goals. Yeah, I used to call them goals, giant outlaid, outrageous, liberating dreams. Same thing. And, and so the way I work with people, and I just did this exercise with force 40, which I know you know, of the top 40, under 40, in South Australia, where we, I got them into alpha brainwaves into that creative, anything as possible state. And then it becomes about asking great questions and removing the beliefs that it has to look like this, because our visions are often based around what we think other people expect of us or society expects of us. But the question is, if I felt no fear, what would life look like? What would work be like if I knew I would be paid X amount of dollars per annum as in the ideal amount? What would I be doing with my time? What would make life and work? Awesome? And if you can ask those questions in a place where you are connected, and your brainwaves are slightly quieter that more that beautiful Alpha brainwaves, then the answers just come to you. And it's hard not to edit and go, Who am I to think I could do that. But the answers that come are the ones that make your belly just set itself on fire in a good way.

Daniel Franco: 1:08:41

There's a lot of self judgment in that space. I think I've got I've done something similar and are moving on now. You can't do that. You know, maybe I haven't really hit the phase that you're talking about. Had the flow. Be in the first day?

Gemma Munro: 1:08:56

I think you can do both. I think you can watch your brain. So it goes back to watching that lizard you can watch your brain go Oh, yeah. Okay, of course, you're thinking those thoughts. That's your job. But actually, I'm just going to ignore you for now. Because this is all about visioning. And then that one of the keys, like I said before, was to give yourself permission for it to only feel 20% doable, and you set yourself that task. And then the other thing you do is once you've got this, as Martha Beck says this big ego vision, you then translate that into mouse steps. So you don't freak your brain out. Do you don't freak your fears out? Yes, you've got a big vision and you look at it now and then but the next question is, what's the next right step? What's the tiny next right step that I can take?

Daniel Franco: 1:09:39

The one percenters we work on the one percenters every day, this small habits, turn them into big habits. I am interested in the visioning pace from an internal point of view is there so we set this you know, the B hag and the goal that you know this great great vision, how do we know those individual small steps? How do we become self aware enough? How do we get enough curiosity? How do we learn the behaviors that will help us get to that vision?

Gemma Munro: 1:10:19

I think it's two things. And again, they seem opposite. But I think doing both is where the power is. So the first thing is actually a very structured, logical way of tackling this, which is, at the start of each day to have a series of questions you ask yourself, so I take back any time at the start of each day. And I'll review my vision. And I'll just ask myself, what's one tiny step I can take today to move towards it? And for me, I've learned my yes sign. So in my body, when I think about the right thing is like, is this the right thing? My heart expands and my shoulders drop? And I feel relaxed. It's like, yeah, that's it. versus my no sign is my shoulders tense up, and my stomach constricts. So I use my body as a compass for is that right? Yeah. The other thing is,

Daniel Franco: 1:11:13

do you do that with every day scenarios?

Gemma Munro: 1:11:16

absolutely. both Yeah, yeah. So even even what what do I want for dinner tonight? Is uh, oh, yes. And no. Yeah. So I use it all the time.

Daniel Franco: 1:11:26

on a previous podcast before this. I've Tim Ferriss, have you heard it? Yes. Yeah. So he has a model. And he says, Who the fuck yeah. Or to know. And then but one that I heard recently, Michelle, who is my business partner, her son has this little spinny wheel on his thing on his phone as an app. Right? Yeah. And the spinny wheel is a yes, no. And you spin it? And whatever it lands on? It's yes, no. But his process is, if you while it's spinning, and you're saying please be No, please be No, please me. No, that just tells you. Yes, you like soccer, like it's just brilliant. You intuitively know what you want to do, and that your body language would tell you that. But I thought that was such a brilliant idea.

Gemma Munro: 1:12:17

It's so good. And what happens is we make we've been taught to make our decision decisions from the neck up. And actually the best decisions are made from the neck down. Because from the neck up, you're going to be focused on justification and fear and security and making sure you don't look like an idiot. But from the neck down. Your body knows your body literally moves towards what's best for it. The other thing I would say in terms of what's the next right step, sometimes you can just leave it up to the universe. And I'll give you a really specific, slightly mundane example. I had a friend don't have you know, Tyron Bromford. But she'll do yes. Yeah. She's She's a dear friend of mine and the founder of body image. Yes, she's,

Daniel Franco: 1:12:58

yes. Yeah. She found a few TV specials and movies.

Gemma Munro: 1:13:03

She's doing her second movie, which means I'd seen her in six months, and we're catching up. It'll be a hug fest next week. But one morning, she said to me, Jamie, I have to get on clubhouse. And I had no idea what clubhouse was. So I looked it up. Obviously, it's a social media. What do you call a platform? Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:13:20

I don't have Apple phone. I can't get on. I did not only Apple drives me insane. That's bonkers. Anyway, keep going.

Gemma Munro: 1:13:29

Anyway, in my research, I didn't find out you could only have apple. But I did find out that you have to get an invitation to join. And so I was in a really relaxed state. I think I was cooking dinner for the kids. And I was sort of in a bit of a meditative state. And I asked the question, I wonder what it would take to get an invitation to clubhouse. And within a few minutes, my phone pinned, and it was my friend, our killer. With a message Jim, I've got an invitation to clubhouse for you. If for some reason it had your name written all over it. So there's something about setting an intention or a vision or a goal and being in a relaxed state, and having the space to listen to the text messages that come in or the book that lands on your lap or the small still voice within having that space and being quiet enough in your brain to notice when they come in. Sometimes the next right step appears right in front of you.

Daniel Franco: 1:14:21

Yeah, I agree. I have you ever read the alchemist? Oh, yes, yes, go but I should read about omens and being open to the omens and noticing them. I've had a similar story. Where I was, I think I was in the throes of thinking about moving out into my own business world and, and also starting to like wanting to get into podcasting and stuff like that. And it was all it all happened. So the story about the podcast is I thought about the podcast from a very, very early point. It wasn't until we hired Gabs that it actually happened right? So I guess Yeah. Which was a year So into the business, the one day I was driving and I've been invited, I reached out to an old friend that used to play cricket together. And I reached out to him because he was running a podcast him and James Begley and Andrew Montecito ran a podcast called rooster radio, they no longer do it. Andrews moved into the US, but they invited me along to a live podcast that they were doing with the Adelaide 36 Captain. And I remember driving, and I was like, I really want to learn more about this podcast and stuff. And I remember driving to work that morning, and I was like, I'm not gonna go, like, I was really not feeling it. I'm not gonna go, I'm not gonna go. And actually, at that point in the car on the way I went, now, I'm not going, I'm damn tired. And I've got too much on all the above. And then this car cut me off. Right on the road, this car caught me off. And I Slammed on my brakes. And then like, he put up his hand and wave Sorry, didn't notice whatever. But on the back of his car had the Adelaide 36 sticker basketballs. And I just mean, what the hell are on I'm going Yeah, and I reckon that was a pivotal moment where I noticed this Omen, if that's what you want to call it. And I went, had a ball, develop this relationship learned a hell of a lot about podcasting, and whatnot in that same process. And, yeah, and it all just sort of went from there.

Gemma Munro: 1:16:27

And to me, and I love that story to me that when you're living in a place where your mind is, is quiet, where you're taking space to listen, those things happen all the time is just that where we're not present enough, or quiet enough to notice them. It's how I met my partner, I woke up to a voice in my head saying, go to this restaurant. And then it's how we got into elevate 61, a voice in my head said listen to the put on the 730 report. And I don't even know it was it was 735 at the time I put it on, and it was information about the program. So I do think one of the things leaders assume is that we need to be structured and very busy and important, but actually taking space to go okay, what's going on. And what's what's next for me, it comes to us, we don't have to hustle and push for it, we just get a get out of our own way and let it flow in.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:21

Okay, so we can talk about this forever. But we don't have time because I know that you have on a very strict schedule. So we've got only a few 1015 minutes or so left. So what I will do is ask one last question. Before we get into our famous quickfire questions. What does the future of Dr. Gemma look like?

Gemma Munro: 1:17:44

Ah, hopefully more of the same. So I'm loving delivering keynotes and leadership programs and working with some really big businesses across Australia and the UK. Next year, I am launching a new program called Create Your impossible dream, which is a 90 day it's weird but wonderful cross between a mastermind and incubator, a coaching program, a launching pad to help you identify envision the impossible dream you want to create, to get really clear on what it looks like and what you need to do to get there. And then to have a cohort of people and myself as your cheerleaders with practical tools and tricks to get your ass in a chair and get great work done and actually produce that impossible dream. So that's launching at the start of next year. And I'm super excited about that. And apart from that, my my long term, giant, outrageous liberating dream is to keep doing that while writing a book. But then also I'd really like to be able to invest in conscious entrepreneurs and conscious businesses, and to give them a training pad a launchpad to do the work they do in the world but grow as individuals at the same time. So grow their businesses grow themselves, but in a way that's actually aligned with who they are and what they want to achieve.

Daniel Franco: 1:19:12

Brilliant. Sounds great love. We've got the perfect opportunity down a lot for

Gemma Munro: 1:19:18

you. It's this is wonderful paperbacks that

Daniel Franco: 1:19:21

well, yeah, it's all happening down there. And I'm sure Dr. Terry could introduce you to a few I've got a few names I could throw you as well. Beautiful, so quickfire questions. Yeah. These don't necessarily have to be by my main quickfire. We can sort of deep dive into them a little bit further, but we're big readers here at creating synergy and synergy IQ. I'm in love with all things books. I have a big library. We talk about books a lot on the podcast. Can you just tell me what you're reading right now?

Gemma Munro: 1:19:51

So I just finished two memoirs. I finished taste by Stanley Tucci, which is journey through his journey through food which I was salivating the whole time is a fabulous read. And then I finished Sutton Foster's memoir. She's a Broadway singer, and it was all about how creativity has helped her mental health. And I found that fascinating. And so, this morning, I found myself without a book to pick up. So I picked up a book of her fees poetry, he's a, a Sufi Persian poet 13th century has always been my bid. And I read a bit of poetry.

Daniel Franco: 1:20:23

Yeah, I keep I keep letters from a stoic, ba,

Gemma Munro: 1:20:30

I still haven't read that. Haven't you know, it's

Daniel Franco: 1:20:33

a game changer. Okay. All right. That's my next book. And if that's because it is it is very much about just being present and being in the moment and understanding what is real and what's not. So it's a graceful thing. But anyway, what is one book that you feel that stands out like one that you would recommend or gift more so than any other?

Gemma Munro: 1:20:56

I loved, I love all of Martha Beck's books. She's very much in self help. But she's a Harvard trained social scientist as well. So she's got the academic chops. And her latest book is called The Way of integrity. And it's, it's this beautiful allegory, she uses Dante's Inferno to talk about how we can move towards integrity, where everything works together, and we're being aligned and in truth with who we are. It was a phenomenal read, and a definite game changer. Was it called again, the way of integral way of integrity, Martha Beck,

Daniel Franco: 1:21:30

so good. Is there any other podcasts that you've listened to other than this one,

Gemma Munro: 1:21:34

other than the ones I listened to regularly are actually Martha Beck podcast with her wife, Ron Mangan. It's called bewildered. And it's about it's the podcast for people who are trying to figure things out, but it's a hoot, as well as various. It's just like, No, I'm done. I've got it sorted and not for those people need for me.

Daniel Franco: 1:21:59

I'm tracking all right.

Gemma Munro: 1:22:00

And I love Glennon Doyle's podcast. We can do hard things with Abby Warren Buffett.

Daniel Franco: 1:22:08

So many times.

Gemma Munro: 1:22:09

It's such a great podcast. So I and then Esther, sorry, Astaire, Parral, her podcast on relationships.

Daniel Franco: 1:22:19

So many good ones. I need to move away from the standard, the Joe Rogan's. And actually the Joe Rogan line is really starting to take up turn since he's become very commercial. I listen to it a lot less now than

Gemma Munro: 1:22:31

it's, you know, it's so interesting, and I'm not. So another podcast I really like in terms of health is Steven chorales character podcast, Dr. Steven Cabral. And he's got this thing that why American men seem to feel the need to do I'm very much generalizing here, gonna talk like this. And it's like Tony Robbins, and I'm exhausted at the end of it. Yeah. So I wonder if that's why I'm listening to podcasts by women. It feels a little more authentic to me anyway. Yeah. So some of those. Even Tim Ferriss got great things to say. It's just a bit yet posturing for me.

Daniel Franco: 1:23:06

Yeah, you're probably right. Yep. The Brene Brown. Deadly podcast is fabulous. She's so good. She's amazing. Yeah. Do you audiobook?

Gemma Munro: 1:23:18

I don't, because I'm a speed reader. So I can read a book in a few hours. Oh, well, it doesn't. I'm just like come on let's get on with it. What's your trick with speed reading? hmm, my trick. I probably I don't even know if I have a trick. I've just always been able to do it. My daughter can do it too. But I know that I don't read every single word. It's like I see it. And I see the whole sentence and I take it in.

Daniel Franco: 1:23:38

Oh, that's nice. That's handy. And we've got a superhero power question coming out. That could be I don't actually get back to me. I don't believe you could speed read letters from a stoic.

Gemma Munro: 1:23:53

Okay. I'm so taking that on as a challenge. Yeah, but

Daniel Franco: 1:23:57

I don't know if you'd want to, because it's one of those books that you have to stop and think

Gemma Munro: 1:24:01

and that's one of the reasons I read poetry is because I'll catch myself speed reading poetry, Gemma, what what are you doing? Here's a beautiful words. Take your time.

Daniel Franco: 1:24:10

Enjoy the journey from the story. If you could I know what is what is this? This is a Brene Brown question. I stole it from her podcast. What is one lesson that is taking you the longest to learn?

Gemma Munro: 1:24:25

I feel like I'm finally starting to learn and of course, this is the cue for the universe to come back and bite me in the bum and say no, you haven't generally talking about but I feel like I'm starting to learn it's taken me a long time the balance between structure and flow. So actually saying here's what I want my life to look like and to structure it that way and have boundaries and to leave space for things to flow in. And so I've I've just started to move to two onstage days a week and two offstage day so onstage days a client work things like this where, you know, I have to look mildly particular And then to off stage days where it's about thought leadership and writing and reflecting and writing for socials and just an elasticized pen.

Daniel Franco: 1:25:17

Brilliant structure is critical

Gemma Munro: 1:25:20

structure gives you my general manager, Stacy who's amazing always says that structure gives you freedom. And I have rebelled against that because I do like things to feel flowy. And then other times, I'm overly structured. So for me, I need both. And I think for everyone, we need to work out the balance of what's the right amount of structure for us versus what's the right amount?

Daniel Franco: 1:25:39

Yeah, I just looked at the time because I got 1000 questions to come out of that on calm spewing. We didn't ask this question. Gabs. And I've actually talked about throwing these up front, because I feel like so much gold like the

Gemma Munro: 1:25:53

question that came. Like when

Daniel Franco: 1:25:55

you talk about structure, a big part of that we've spoken about time new, it's one that I grappled with. I don't know how to manage my time, because I, I am the the very spur of the moment person I always have been. I've always, if you ask any of my close friendship group is then makes a decision on a whim and then runs with it. If you ask anyone in the team, they will say the exact same thing. Yeah. So for me. How do you structure your day and actually saying this dealing with you and your EA? Yes, yeah. Yeah, clearly, yeah. On locking you in for this time? It was this struggle, but it was because of the structure that's in place, which kudos for that very reason. Yeah, I don't. And it's probably a very horrible question. But how would you start? How do you manage your time?

Gemma Munro: 1:26:51

Yeah, no, it's I love these sorts of questions. I've actually got a keynote called productivity is an inside job. So I love talking about this. Clearly, that clearly, and Stacy, they're whole, they're there to in Stacy's words helped me win and free me up to do what I do best. And so we structured the week around what do I do best, which is making sure I'm speaking and writing and creating, and that's about it. But for me, I have in my handbag, which is over there, but I've got a full it's a beautiful system called a full focus planner, it's a journal, and I structure it at the start of the week, you do a weekly preview, and you work out what you want to achieve that week. And then I put it in a calendar. So my onstage days are structured, it's like, I've got half an hour to do this, I've got an hour to do that. So I can get as much as possible done. So you'll see my whole day is planned out in chunks, including a rest break, which I do with a little balloon. But on my offstage days, I will only allow myself to focus on one or two things, and then I can just flow with it. So for me when I'm structured, unstructured, and when I'm flowing, I'm flowing. And that's the right balance for me. Yeah, but I would say for you, your strengths are probably you wouldn't want to take the spontaneity away from you. Because then you'd be missing a lot.

Daniel Franco: 1:28:12

That's the bit that I grappled with. Yeah, I've business coaches and all the above. And they're saying, Dan, you need to get better with your time.

Gemma Munro: 1:28:19

Like, yeah, I struggle with it. And one thing you could do is structure the morning and then say, right afternoons, my free time or something like that. So you've got five Yeah, that's right. Let's see what comes

Daniel Franco: 1:28:32

securely did. And she's gonna listen to this podcast. She did ask for half an hour back and I refused to respond to the second time Yeah, she did say like, Can we get some devinwatson extra time on didn't respond. So clearly, apologies. It wasn't as if you could invite three people, friends, you know, who would they be?

Gemma Munro: 1:29:03

I don't know if it sounds boring, but I don't really care. It would be my girlfriends. So I'm separated from we've got a very tight threesome. We used to sing around the world together and separate because of COVID. So I just have dinner with them or three other girlfriends one of whom Tarn, I just haven't seen because of the film. Yeah. And it's to me, I am an introvert and I can learn a lot from listening to people and podcasts, but I would rather just hang with the people and laugh and delve deep.

Daniel Franco: 1:29:36

Yeah, I have a core group of eight. Right. So we went through the school through school together and we're still friends today. We actually it was saying to this Gab Gabriela this morning we we actually design our lives where we live within a one kilometer radius like what two of my best mates live three houses down from me and they live next door to each other. We've definition of a posse Yes. So we've just been Yeah, it's like the entourage. Yeah, we just design our lives where we're next to each other. And we all still get along as if we're writing your own kids running around.

Gemma Munro: 1:30:09

Amazing.

Daniel Franco: 1:30:12

What is some of the best advice that you've ever received?

Gemma Munro: 1:30:18

To meditate, to prioritize meditation, and to know that you're not always going to have a good session. So I've been meditating for, I don't even know, 13 years, something like that. And there are still sessions where I get to the end of it and go, Oh, well, I plan my wardrobe for tonight. Because my mind's just been thinking. And I think so many people don't meditate, because they think they're bad at it. But that's just the nature of the brain's use guided meditation or sometimes. So I've, as part of my morning, ritual, after exercise, my partner and I will make ourselves some turmeric, Chai, and we'll go out on the porch, and we'll meditate together. And sometimes we feel like a guided one. And sometimes we just have the timer. But we use the Insight Timer, the free meditation app, which is so good.

Daniel Franco: 1:31:03

How do you excuse like the deep diving into your own personal life? I don't want to dive there. But how do you do that in the morning when you go kid drop offs and stuff like that.

Gemma Munro: 1:31:12

So we have kids week on week off, which makes it easier, but even with the kids, they're there, they're now older. So we've got a blend a tribe of 3 10 11 and 14. And they're pretty good at knowing what they need to do and getting ready in the morning. And actually, if we get involved and start micromanaging the morning goes pear shaped. So they we get up early and exercise usually before they're awake. And then they're usually having their breakfast and being sleepy and grumpy. Or the other doors while we're out meditating. And then we're there with them. Okay, and one of us will drop so you part of the 5am Club? I do not I used to be when I before COVID I was religious if 45 a Holic? Yeah. And I'd get up and go to their 5am class. And then I just got really tired. So I wake at six. Okay. Yes, sometimes a bit later from time

Daniel Franco: 1:32:04

time machine. Yeah, where would you go?

Gemma Munro: 1:32:08

Oh, I would. I'm fascinated by the 1920s in New York, and just that, that opulence. And not obviously not all through New York. There's a few pockets. There's a

Daniel Franco: 1:32:18

few Italians running around. That's a few Italian Capone and

Gemma Munro: 1:32:26

I'm just fascinated by the architecture and the dress. And the I'm not even a party person, but the music and the parties and even the trains. I'd like to go back and go on a train travel when train travel was romantic. Yeah, looks like fun. Yeah, it's not like that anymore.

Daniel Franco: 1:32:43

No. and No, that Joe, the no mobile phone world. Something that really excites me. It's

Gemma Munro: 1:32:52

yeah, I look at my kids. And this is another conversation for another time. But I I feel like they're missing out on the time that we had where you'd be in a car and you'd be bored, but you just stare out the window and dream. And that's that was renewing time. And we do make them do that. But they kick and scream about it. Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:33:12

I do. I used to go out on my bike when I was bored and try to get lost.

Gemma Munro: 1:33:19

Or something to do it. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:33:21

Yeah, literally. I'm gonna just ride into I just do not know where I am. And then figure out my way to home. Yeah, you couldn't do that these days.

Gemma Munro: 1:33:29

Well, no, I don't have like, where are the maps? Yeah, that's the street cool. My

Daniel Franco: 1:33:34

daughter's those one of those space talk watches. Yes. Got like literally gonna achieve this on this. Anyway, like, go there. If you could have one superhero power, what would it be?

Gemma Munro: 1:33:45

It would be to teleport, so that I could go to awesome places and not have to deal with jetlag, or

Daniel Franco: 1:33:50

quickly. Yeah, teleportation is a favorite. Is it? Yeah, it is good. How do I do something and do it quickly?

Gemma Munro: 1:33:58

What's yours?

Daniel Franco: 1:34:00

superhero power? I think I had said I've said numerous times. I change on day to day, but I would like the power of knowledge. I feel like the who has the power of knowledge or the power of being able to download quickly, almost like

Gemma Munro: 1:34:19

Strange has that. Yes. Strange because he does astral projection and reads books while he sleeps? Correct? Yeah, you could be students. Yeah. He's one of my favorite. Sorry. Yes. He's one of my favorites.

Daniel Franco: 1:34:29

He's a marvel. Yeah, me too. But that knowledge because then I could build a teleportation device right.

Gemma Munro: 1:34:38

I'll be your best customer.

Daniel Franco: 1:34:41

I think that's thing like why would you just get the knowledge to do everything and then you have the power to do anything. Yeah.

Gemma Munro: 1:34:47

This is actually very good point. My

Daniel Franco: 1:34:49

favorite question coming up right now is what is your best dad slash mom joke.

Gemma Munro: 1:34:57

Okay, Um, how is a squirrel? The same as a cigarette?

Daniel Franco: 1:35:08

How is the squirrel? A squirrel? The same as a cigarette? I got no idea.

Gemma Munro: 1:35:12

They're both harmless until you stick one in your mouth and set it on fire.

Daniel Franco: 1:35:19

That's horrible. Yes, and see your ads and Oh good. Yes, indeed. Well done. That is brilliant. I'm gonna use that I'm a collector of objects. So one last final question, Where can we find you?

Gemma Munro: 1:35:42

It's pretty easy Drgemmamunro.com. And I'm also online linked in as Dr. Gemma Munro and Instagram as Dr. Gemma Munro,

Daniel Franco: 1:35:50

you get a fairly large following in that space too.

Gemma Munro: 1:35:54

It's i i love chatting with people and I love sharing what's inspiring me and hearing about what's inspiring them but also trying to serve in whatever way I can. So whether it's tips or tricks, or just answering their questions it I find it really buzzy thing to do

Daniel Franco: 1:36:10

prevent, right everyone if you want to follow this amazing human, go and check out those sites. Thank you so much for your time today. Gemma's amazing you having you on the show. And thank you for everything that you're doing in the world and looking at I'm gonna say this on behalf of the female population that is listening in all the work that you did with including women and an inkling group. I know a lot of people who have said that you add a lot of benefit on the statistic of 60% of women who have gone through your programs have been promoted and had those aha moments. So you know, you've had a lot of impact on the world. So kudos to you for that.

Gemma Munro: 1:36:53

Thank you, Dan, very much. I've enjoyed myself.

Daniel Franco: 1:36:56

Thanks again, guys. We will catch you next time. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Or you can check out the show notes if there was anything of interest to you and find out more about us at Synergyiq.com.au. I am going to ask though, if you did like the podcast, it would absolutely mean the world to me if you could subscribe, rate and review. And if you didn't like it, that's alright too. There's no need to do anything. Take care guys, all the best.

Synergy IQ: 1:37:22

Thank you once again for joining us here at creating synergy. It's been great spending this time with you. Please jump on to the synergy IQ Facebook and LinkedIn page where the discussion continues after the show. Join our mailing list so you'll know what's happening next at Synergy iq.com.au. And of course don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. And if you really enjoyed it, please share it with your friends.