Synergy IQ: 0:01

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Daniel Franco: 0:20

Hi there synergizers and welcome back to another episode of the creative synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco. And today we have the AFL legend Gavin Wanganeen on the show. Gavin is the former iPhone player who played for us and in in the AFL and put a light in both AFL and this NFL. Gavin won the 1993 Brownlow medal and has been inducted into the Australian Football Hall of Fame the highest honor for any NFL football player. He was a two time AFL premiership player in 1993 and 2004 and was an S NFL premiership player in 1990, a John Cale medalist in 2003 and the porter like Captain between 1997 and the year 2000. In addition to this, he was a five time all Australian team representative and participated in the National Football carnival championship of 1993. On top of this, when you name was awarded the following honors, it was the Michael tuck middle winter of 1993, the Essendon team of the century back pocket and the champions of Essendon number 19. Port Adelaide have also named the Gavin Wanganeen medal for the best young player, and he's been honoured by having the Eastern Standard of Adelaide Oval named after him the Gavin Wanganeen stand. Today Gavin is an indigenous Australian activist who is working as a professional artist painting stories that remind him of his cultural heritage. And in his business career, he was a director of Port la football club, I found the managing director of Mara partners, a recruitment company that does all types of recruitment from blue collar to white collar, and he has a vision to close the gap in corporate Australia. Gavin says it's an area that is neglected. And so we're playing your leading hand here at Mara partners in creating culturally safe workplaces, educating leaders and creating role models to ensure brilliant Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have a clear pathway to pursue their dream careers and be mentored along that journey. In this episode, we talked about all things football and business we chatted about some of these career highlights to the importance of the team around them to the importance that his coach, the great Kevin Sheedy had on his life, the transition from athlete to entrepreneur, to how he and why he became a professional artist, to the work that he's doing at Mara partners, the recruitment company, and his passion to change the narrative and change the scenario for all Aboriginal people in the corporate world, to the importance that cultural awareness plays in sport. I know you're absolutely going to love this chat. And if you'd love to learn more about some of the other great, amazing leaders that we've had on the creating synergy podcast, then be sure to jump on our website at Synergy iq.com.au Or check us out on the creating synergy podcast on all the podcast outlets. Cheers. So welcome back to the creating synergy podcast. My name is Daniel Franco. And today we have the great one and only Gavin Wanganeen on the show. Thanks for coming on. Yeah,

Gavin Wanganeen: 3:40

pleasure mine, looking forward to it.

Daniel Franco: 3:42

So it's not every day you get to sit down with a childhood hero. I don't know. When you when you want your brown though, in the Premiership in 93. And yeah, followed you on your journey all the way. Obama's days. On his days. Yeah, because that's my two who go for the boss. And so jumped on one of them there is the most Yeah, his name's Paul. He's one of the most jealous human beings right that I'm sitting total how I am so he he's actually thrown me a few questions in here as well that we'll probably run into the bombers i I'd be more probably is just more about leadership and stuff like that. So cool. He's a smart guy, apparently. Look, I just want to start off the, the podcast with just some curry highlights. We do have a large corporate following. So they might they want to who go they will know who Gavin Wanganeen is but might no not know some of those career highlights. I'm just going to rattle off some things here. So in 1990, you played your first S NFL game at 16. And you went on to win the NFL Rookie of the Year that year. Your first game in the AFL at 17. You're a two time premiership player one with And then one with poor allied football club 1993 bronze medalist first ever First Nations to ever plan to ever win this award Essendon team of the century Port Adelaide power ignore inaugural captain. In one year your AFL players association most courageous player, the first ever First Nations player to play 300 games. You've got an the Eastern Standard Adelaide Oval named after you the Gavin Wanganeen Stand. There's also the Gavin Wanganeen medal for the best rookie at Port. You're now an artist with some of your art selling. Like for some pretty good, pretty good coin as well. Contestant on the TV show survivor husband to paper and father of six kids five boys. Sorry five girls and one boy. And on top of this you're an entrepreneur. You've started waste management recruitment coffee business, you know, so pretty, pretty formidable.

Gavin Wanganeen: 6:00

And it was a bit that had gone on.

Daniel Franco: 6:02

There's a difference there.

Gavin Wanganeen: 6:05

Yeah, forgot about this this person.

Daniel Franco: 6:09

Well, congratulations on your career. It's been. It's pretty, pretty amazing. If now, I want to start off on when on the Wikipedia. You type in Gavin Wanganeen Wikipedia. That's how famous you are. And there's a lot on there. It says Gavin Wanganeen debuted for the club in 1991. Round two in a win against Richmond he immediately found he merely found a niche as an attacking defender. And his handsome appearance made him popular with a female that's Kapadia. Yeah. Did you edit that yourself?

Gavin Wanganeen: 6:47

No, I did not. But it does bring back you know, a lot of memories in my early days, you know, in Melbourne and in the big city of Melbourne and playing with the s&m bombers and yeah, just sort of trading, you know, a bit of a fanfare type, you know, situation with, you know, supporters for the exciting $40 playing and being, you know, Brownlow medalist, you know, one of the great clubs in Australia. Huge sort of supporter base. Yeah, there was a lot of tension on it as a young age and, you know, more or less a little bit more good. Looks. A bit now, but back then. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, there was a little bit of tension there, sir. Just like I'm not surprised. That's

Daniel Franco: 7:26

just like a fine wine may still good. Now we call up for coffee at Joe's kiosk down the beach a couple of weeks ago. And I don't know if you notice, but you walked into that when you walked into the kiosk, everyone sort of turned their heads. And there was a couple of women sitting next to us who are reckon was sneaking in some Do you have? Are you aware of this going on? And how have you sort of managed that throughout your life? I mean, you started playing Phil at 718 Spotlight on early in his winning brown lows and premierships good looking man. All right. So how has this How have you handled the spotlight?

Gavin Wanganeen: 8:06

Yes. Oh, yes. I mean, yeah, hello. Because, yeah, you know, just get used to Yeah, people, I guess, you know, having a second look, and then I will Oh, that's right. Yeah, he's by 40. For a long time. They recognize me it's, it's just something I got used to and

Daniel Franco: 8:27

see. Do you not notice it now? Or do you still notice? Oh,

Gavin Wanganeen: 8:30

I think I noticed as always, yeah. It's there. Yeah. But don't really focus on it. Yeah. Yeah, just just got used to it. And I've learned not to pick my nose in public because a lot of eyes on me, and stuff like that. But yeah, look, I mean, look, it's yeah, when you're quite young, it's, you know, it's nice to sort of, yeah, you know, receive that sort of attention to be well known. But as you sort of get older, it's like, well, yeah, it's nice. But

Daniel Franco: 9:00

how old is Mike? How was it in those early years that the club How did you how did you how did you as a young upcoming Star handle that popularity? Did you? I mean, did it affect you in any way? Or did you think you thrived on that and performed because of it? Probably

Gavin Wanganeen: 9:21

in a way Yeah. It sort of pumped me up and gave me confidence and you know in Victoria and huge essence supporter base and and just Victorian sort of public life, I guess it was, yeah, gave me a lot of confidence. And I just sort of roll with it. Really, it didn't really affect me in any way. I just it is what it was. And I knew I had to you know, I was going to be a role model and always wanted to make sure that I gave people my time and was never rude to fans or was happy to sign the autographs. And it doesn't matter if I'm 18 or with a meet whatever. Yeah, we can always give them my time. So that was something that I focused on and the supporters, you know, not only for that, you know, it's an or put aid or any other, you know, team support as well as giving my time. Yeah, I think that's important.

Daniel Franco: 10:11

Absolutely. That's probably why you're here. So I just want to jump through the years, because we have we are on a time limit here. So we'll go through these questions. I want to jump through these the year that you did when the Brownlow 1993. The same year you won the premiership with Essendon. It's a pretty good year. Yeah. Is there something that you remember back to that, you know, that almost like turn the switch on in that year was there that was in the preseason? Did you say to yourself, right, this is going to be the year that you as a team, I know you refer to as the baby bombers, all that sort of stuff. So how did you? How did you personally prepare for that season?

Gavin Wanganeen: 10:53

Yeah, I don't think it was something that we didn't prepare for a premiership put it that way. Yeah. We, in 1990 in of 1990, I rocked up at Essendon they were licking their wounds when the club because Collingwood would beat them in that Premiership. Yeah. So 91 was a year where a group of youngsters had been injected into the team. I was one of those likes of, you know, James Hurd, and he was probably later in that year, early the year after, and then you know, Martin Currie, David Kelly, you know, these, like doesn't Fletcher's? So you know, we had that young group that was injected in in which was really important to help the the older guys and the guys are licking their wounds to sort of take their mind off what it actually happened. And then we progress forward with a new young group that can ignite the older group, and together become one. So we just got on a bit of a roll really, in 91 flowed through quite quickly, I think we made the finals but got knocked out straight away. 92 played some good footy. But didn't, you know, make the finals have been 93. So we've got some games into those younger guys, in 90 through three just sort of rolled nicely. And all of a sudden, this young group of players were gelling together, exciting, passionate and just young, like, just just wanted to run through walls, you know, that sort of gang. And we had talent. So we just got on a roll somehow, we created this small wave, and we kept riding, we didn't get off that wave. Yeah. And we just kept riding with it. And the wave got bigger and bigger, and we kept staying on the wave. And

Daniel Franco: 12:37

were you guys big on preparation? Was it you know, hopefully, clubs, a bigger preparation, but were you putting extra emphasis on it that year? And especially yourself? I mean, did you in in 1992, did you in your own head think that you could become a Brownlow medalist the very next year?

Gavin Wanganeen: 12:59

I look, I always set high goals for myself as an individual. Yeah, I want to aim for the stars. Yeah. So it was always something I wanted to do. premierships? You know, all that. Yeah. So, you know, you're obviously have to put in really good preseason. So your preparation starts in November, setting the foundations in the running in the gym, getting your leg strength, right, so that you're strong enough and your cause right, and that you can handle a whole season of football. So it starts in the gym and on the on the track in summer. So that's the first step. Yeah. And then the second step becomes a bit easier if you get that first step.

Daniel Franco: 13:35

Right to lay the foundation isn't laying

Gavin Wanganeen: 13:37

the foundation laying the brickwork, you know, and then if you throw in a bunch of young lads who are hungry, have talent, enthusiastic, and we tried hard, had a good motivator and Kevin Sheedy he had the pieces of the puzzle and he was able to move the pieces around and give players opportunities to play in positions that excited them so he wasn't scared to to change things up and get position players in different positions for a back money to afford line for a quarter so he goes we might be down at halftime not playing well he he mix things up. Yeah, he wasn't afraid. He was afraid to change things at halftime and heaps of times at halftime of a game he tried me into the center we were not getting the ball get going to the center. I loved it because I want to get out of the back. You know, because I wanted to get with action. Yeah, otherwise have a good second half. So that was happening with lots of different players. So yeah, it was exciting to get to get on that wave and during the winter in Melbourne and as a young group, you know, we went out a little bit as well to bond Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 14:47

it was definitely helps right when you becoming a team you become one

Gavin Wanganeen: 14:51

Yeah, definitely. I think it was, you know, it was important we didn't go overboard I mean, actually well, there was one part to my definitely want to know what he ended up paying the premier Like your cold pool hills and I love him to death but gee he could party man. I think he actually went to the tunnel nightclub more times and he trained I'm not kidding. I love your pool hills. And he played a really good role. And look he did burn out. Yeah, quickly. Yeah, it was. Yeah. I think ends and a pretty good apprenticeship and yeah that that bonding will happen with the older guys and the younger guys. There was still obviously discipline there from the older guys and pulling somebody and realizing to line if that needed to happen. Well, yeah, that happened. But everything in moderation. If you get that balance right, I think it's a good model. I think we got a right.

Daniel Franco: 15:39

Did you put a lot of emphasis on like, was there a lot of talk from Kevin Sheedy as the coach to do that bonding stuff and not not so much the partying but the gelling as a team becoming one and working together your blood on the line, so to speak? Yeah, definitely.

Gavin Wanganeen: 15:54

Always. So the odd time where we have a, I think, early in the year 93 was the end of 92. We we got built a couple of times the next morning, it's brekkie. At at a certain restaurant, yeah. 7am. Everyone's there, she will have a bit of bonding together. That's uniting. Yeah, getting everyone together when we're hurting, to take your mind off what's actually happened, but they need reiterate at the end, like guys, we had a pretty disappointing game, but here are the positives from this game. Yeah. So this and this, just bring more of those and we'll be fine. Don't worry about the rest. You know about the rest of yourself. It doesn't need to be thrown down your throat and messing with your psyche. Yeah, he was always such a positive guy shoots, you'll always find the positive in the negative and go with that narrative, the next week, or for training, focus on that positive, we're gonna get better at those positives. We're going to bring that for four quarters.

Daniel Franco: 16:51

Do you think it was pivotal in your growth and development as a player and a human being? Yeah. 100%

Gavin Wanganeen: 16:58

Yeah, probably the most pivotal person because you know, Essen and I rocked up as a young halfword midfielder played all my junior fully in the midfield and I was getting bullied out of the you know, well, I'm still doing well as a half for kicking goals. Yeah, but I was getting smashed physically from the bigger half backs they'll just you know, getting into me so he throw me into the backline go to another end Gavin. No one's gonna touch because you're going to be doing the minding your running. And he said, just play footy. So whenever I've got the foot in the backline to Catch Me If You Can. I'm taking you on I'm not going to be an old boring. halfback, back pocket pages mining and opponent. Yeah, hang on a minute. No, I'm going to beat you to the football. I'm going to run the ball out of there at a rate of knots. And we'll fly for my marks I'm going to flick the handle around I'm going to run and bounce bounce bounce and take it on. So I feel so privileged that he did that because I think that gave me longevity in the game and got my confidence going early not saying that I would have wouldn't have got that if I'd stayed in you know the Halfboard and building into a midfielder because I would have loved to play more midfield I think I could have been a long term mid midfielder. And but I always did a part time playing midfield but that just gave me the foundations and the confidence to just take the game on it and be who I was. So if cheats didn't make that move, who knows what would have happened but it just gave me the opportunities and the confidence to go through so that was it. And you know, he was always there for you as an individual and he's players he always went into bat for his players never got hurt on the footy field. Why? An illegal act or anything like yeah, he he'd be looking after you and caring and he wanted to know more about you as an individual away from football as well. So it wasn't all that footballs that life. So he got the balance, right. But he was a great motivator and someone who Yeah, it was I love and yeah, yeah, actually.

Daniel Franco: 18:53

There's some famous coaches in the world Phil Jackson, Bill Belichick, you know, these sort of guys from the NBA in the NFL, who are renowned to focus on the one percenters, right? It's all it's all about the 1% It's down to like the socks that you were right. It was was Kevin or any of the coaches that you work with over the years with a really big on the one percenters like creating those small habits, creating those small little routines every day and just getting better and better. And like we talked about before laying that solid foundation.

Gavin Wanganeen: 19:24

Yeah, I think I mean, he, he was a tough halfback. flankin A talented football himself, but he was at a guy old school. So it was about toughness and footy so that that that was his one percenters. Yeah, in a way. Yeah. No, they were known again. They were the they were the no negotiables it's like, you're hard and aggressive at the football. It's like, you got to get in there. Yeah. If you don't, they will. Yeah. If you got to run through the contest, you got to run through the marking contest if they're in the white It's football. Yeah, they're gonna do it to you. You want to be nice. It's a ball game to diamond fair. Yeah, fair, but tough. That was shooters one presented. Yeah. And then from there hear the creativity of the back of that hardness to allow the players to play with flair. Yeah. And unpredictability. And that's why the 93 the year of the 93. That'd be bombers. We played with flair. Yeah. And no one could predict what was going on. None could be and even to this day, that's what wins premierships you gotta play creatively and keep attack taking and you're not even that predictable to yourself, let alone how can the opposition predict what you're going to do? And that's when you got the upper hand?

Daniel Franco: 20:42

Yeah. After the year of like, 93, when the brown, low premiership, two big year, you step out in the field in 94? Was the pressure on, especially on yourself, was it? Did you feel an extra weight on your shoulders stepping onto the oval the next year?

Gavin Wanganeen: 21:01

I mean, I'd heard that. Yeah. Some people are in little clips in the paper. They said, Well, yeah, you get to play like a brown lamellas now that you're after is going to be tough, and the attention is going to be on you. They don't want to be smashing you. And it was probably true to a certain extent. Yeah, definitely. It comes with the territory. And but I feel that my 94 season was actually not far off my nonius racing. Yeah, in my personal opinion, I think I was reasonably consistent. And I felt I had a really good year. 94. So I think the pressure was good. I didn't mind pressure. Yeah. And yeah, it was you know, that comes with the territory.

Daniel Franco: 21:37

Did you? Did you use that to fuel you did like the pressure of the outside world. And these all sudden these new founded expectations on you, not only you but the team? Did you guys use that as fuel to improve and get better?

Gavin Wanganeen: 21:53

Year? Look, it was we obviously didn't have a great, yeah. Your team was in 94. We didn't make the finals. I don't think I missed out. So they probably just goes to show that we took our opportunities the previous year on the opportunity to the next level. We really just took it. So we weren't building for a premiership. It was more of a Blooding. Yeah. And building things fell in the right place. And we just we got on that way. Yeah, it just goes to show that you can, you can go in and achieve things before. You know, that extended goal. You can actually achieve it earlier. Yeah. At times, and when things come together. That's where you get to go with it and strike. Yeah. So that's maybe that's reason why we sort of dropped off quickly because we we went building towards, you know, three, four years.

Daniel Franco: 22:47

Yeah. Okay. You too much team bonding after? That's all you guys probably.

Gavin Wanganeen: 22:57

Yeah, I dropped off a little bit after but

Daniel Franco: 23:00

anyway, but that's right. It happens, right?

Gavin Wanganeen: 23:02

It does happen. Yeah. And you know, some of the younger guys with some pliers, sort of their we call it their, their goals sort of change, or their passion for their goals change, because I've achieved the ultimate.

Daniel Franco: 23:18

Do you feel that at all? Did you go out on you said dynaform was a great bet a year from you as a plan you personally felt like you performed? Did you know that you were a Brownlow medalist and, and the premiership player at a very young age, you know, you've almost achieved everything would everyone sets out to achieve in their football career so early? Did that change or affect your mentality in any way, shape or form?

Gavin Wanganeen: 23:42

Now? I don't think so. You know, sometimes if you achieve some special premiership or anything laughs So, early in your career, yeah, maybe the hunger sort of tapers off a little bit. Is that fair? And I think that's human nature. Yeah, it's, you got to learn from that. And if you get an opportunity to play an apprenticeship later, which for me, I was very lucky. I got one at 30 years of age. So 10 years later, yeah, so it was a long time in between drinks. But you know, you got older players who might be just tapering off, you know, from they're really off their peak if they're and you know, 3031 Yeah, it just in that just back into their, their peak and then experience but it's a quick fall off the cliff. So those other players can drop off very quickly. Yeah. So you know, the shift in the right balance is out. So you need that right balance of plays in the right age brackets to win a premiership? Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 24:39

So you in 97 were poached almost from the from the hands of, of Kevin shady. The Power Team knocked on your door and said come over and let's we need you as captain. Were you ready for the cap? didn't roll in.

Gavin Wanganeen: 25:01

Okay. I think, yeah, look at being a South Australian airport. approached me and pretty hard and you know, yep. Does that draw to go back home? I guess if I hadn't have won a premiership with this and then and had this success that I had, it isn't I wouldn't have. I felt, you know why I've achieved so much it isn't. And that's probably what got them over the line. If I'd won and won a premiership or had the success, I'll never want to come back. Yeah. Okay. Because you wanted to achieve I wanted to achieve that right at that, isn't it? Yeah. And I did that. So that help and decision was made, and it was never easy. decision. I had a great career, isn't it? Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 25:44

Were you in the leadership team at the time, so I should have not really No, you weren't. So going into a role? Yeah. So going into a role of port?

Gavin Wanganeen: 25:52

I still Yeah, I mean, yeah. I wasn't in any leadership role. Yeah. Bama Thompson and these likes, ladies. So yeah. But it was Yeah, frowned upon me. I guess in a way. I played the most games. Easily over 100 games. Yeah. We already 20 Well, are you ever ready?

Daniel Franco: 26:11

I mean, nothing. You're not always.

Gavin Wanganeen: 26:17

For me, I I thought I'll go on and play. Lead by example. Just play hard, tough, aggressive. footy. Yeah. My strengths. Were one on one relationships from players. Yeah. Which I think is the most important. Yeah, leadership is what your relationship is, like with the team and suppose you one on one, and you treat them on their own merits, the younger lad, you get to try and communicate in the way that they they can receive that sort of communication, then you get a middle aged players, and the older players have different communication again. So I felt that went really well. Always gave the younger players time and welcome them in and spoke to him. And wasn't sort of the guy that was going to be ranting, raving overly, over the top. This is how we do it guys. In paid as well as I can feel it did a pretty good job of that. But for years, I did that. And I had a lot of injuries and those first four years. Yeah. Just on and off. Start playing a good patch of 40 Get an injury. You know, that was my first four years

Daniel Franco: 27:19

could have been doing the simple fact that you just throw yourself at anything. You still had that Kevin shady mentality.

Gavin Wanganeen: 27:25

He also threw myself in a lawn I'm paying for now. Yeah. Yeah, it was a good experience. And

Daniel Franco: 27:31

I think you won the most. You did win. Phil's most courageous player, like voted by the players. Yeah, there's something in there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, people look at the likes of you know, Patrick Dangerfield, and that today just throws himself at the ball. You're almost going to be certain that he's going to pay for that. Yeah. I'm now yeah, in what way in in the bodies today? You

Gavin Wanganeen: 27:53

just, you know, your your back. You notice this? Our soil here is hard to sleep at night because you can't lay on this show. It's like it's numb when you get up. It's aching. Yeah, so like when I get I could barely walk sort of thing or it takes me 20 steps to warm up. So well.

Daniel Franco: 28:12

Feel like an old man. Yeah. Yeah, but

Gavin Wanganeen: 28:15

it warms up right. Yeah. You know, I guess I'm reasonably lucky in a way as well. Heavy, you know, serious, serious injuries, but it's more wear and tear. I feel like a Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 28:26

What was what was some of the key learnings you reckon you learned in those early years as ports captain in a new club? Was there anything sort of pivotal that you took away from that period? Yeah, from that period,

Gavin Wanganeen: 28:41

it was that the very first year it was put out like power, it was a new era.

Daniel Franco: 28:47

And that was tough to lead a new brand and you knew

Gavin Wanganeen: 28:50

brand. players from all over Australia had come in? Yeah. A lot of Victorian boys and it was gonna be tough. It's gonna be hard yards.

Daniel Franco: 29:00

I mean, most captains when they step into a role, right, you they've been the players have kind of been playing together for some time. Whereas this was completely different. You're, you're basically asked to assemble a new team and, and lead a team that's never played together before. How did you how did you manage that as a as a leader and also as a human being? Well, we

Gavin Wanganeen: 29:22

had Jack cow, he was motivating and encouraging young young fellows and new players to just have fun and, and be confident in themselves and have a crack and don't be scared of the situation or just embrace it and, and nothing's impossible. You know, in that first year, I think the power 110 10 games 10 and a half games out finals and percentage is unheard of. No new team will come in 10 games in the first year. So we obviously did something right and probably come back down to a lot of Jack cow just encouraging the players to not be scared and And, and just roll with it and be confident and you can go on to things you know quicker than you would expect. But we were don't get it. Don't get me wrong. We were a new site. Yeah, we weren't. Okay. We weren't the old portal. I make piles of old. We will put a lot of new. Yeah. And we were it was a you know, there were games we got smashed. The second year was was was tough and third year, it just goes to show that we didn't have the foundation, we sort of bobbed up and played above ourselves in a way new team. But you it was it was it was hard, hard work and tough going those first, you know, especially the second or third, I think maybe even the fourth you were just goes to show a new club or a new team that's been assembled together. If you haven't got that tradition, yeah. And those pillars in place while they were there in the magpies era, that was a great club. But we're in the new oil a Power team in the NFL and a new national competition not in this in a failure. So it was yeah, it was it was tough times it would have been time time.

Daniel Franco: 31:10

How did you manage the I guess the the transition from a leader who you loved and adored in Kevin Sheedy into a new coach in a new team? Did you were almost comparing? Was there a point of view where you're saying you're not so much like Kevin, or were you just really impressed with I don't know, after a scoop. You know, we really impressed with Jack's ability to pull the team together.

Gavin Wanganeen: 31:37

Yeah. And I was impressed with Jack's ability to pull a team together. He use a great leader, a great coach, and he's a 10 time premiership isn't I feel premiership coach. Yeah. So he knew how to get guys together into play, play football and to be successful. He he knew how to do that. Just because it was at the highest level now in the NFL in a national competition. I don't think that mattered. He did as well as he could have done with it with a young, extremely young, immature, inexperienced group. great motivator, Jack great motivator. Yeah, yeah. So he knew his stuff and he had the ability. Especially I look back at this in a fail because you compare him he was fun. He was probably the greatest coach 10 premiership Yeah, he had a wonderful ability to speak to the players or middle of the road players and even the on the fringe players. Which is half your team maybe Yeah, yeah. A quarter of your team yet. You got all your settled stars and middle group that a solid workhorses. Then you got that batch of players that are you know, hanging the team, they're paying really good reasonable football and then you guys are coming in out here ability to get those guys to play much better than that the ability they had. Yeah. And that was the way he spoke to them. Yeah, he gave him the confidence to go and play above their own ability. And that was one of his greatest strengths because you get those players playing. Good. footy. Helps the rest of the team you have a great team because of those because that that group Yeah, players who are not recognized, you're only they can go they can go and do their job. They're the workhorses. You get them to play unbelievable. footy. And they're the workhorse type players and you need them.

Daniel Franco: 33:22

Yeah, absolutely. Was there any while we're just chatting about the coaches was there any think that because you've played under three NFL choco choco as well. Did was there any thing that over your career that you look back now that you think to yourself? Well, that was pivotal, what they said to me that day, what I learned from in their application, whatever it might be, that was pivotal to who I am and where I am

Gavin Wanganeen: 33:55

one to answer I must admit, I mean, I think I spent a lot of time with Kevin Sheedy I think have spoken about you know, the way he coaches that connection and the motivating type that he is, I think, I think Chako similar in a way and same to Jack a great motivator. They all have their strengths and and similarities and Mark beam spent a bit of time at s&m Back in, I think it was, was it 93 and 94. He was assistant coach at SNL. Yeah, so I spent a bit time to go there. He's a great motivator and Chuck gave me an opportunity to play in the midfield for a whole year in of one preseason he, I think I was 29 and chogha came out to me to give and I you know, you need to get in the midfield to do some damage. And then I'm going to release you next year. You can play in the midfield the whole year. You beauty beauty and pop you know had one of my great years the following year. So that was innovative mindset and I've tried to identify and see that that I needed to be released. Yeah, I've got to play one for you. And in that my only year to be paid to play in the midfield for the whole

Daniel Franco: 35:10

year. Was that a frustration for you throughout your career? Look, to be honest. Yeah, I

Gavin Wanganeen: 35:14

look back on it. I think I could have been great midfielder as well. where you work? Well, I mean, you know I had Yeah. When I went in always, because I didn't get in there as much. Yeah, right. This bit like, I had to explain it. I don't know. For me, it was like, you know, I love playing in defense. But I've always played creative attacking footy and our condo had lockdown roles. Yeah, you know, no matter what role you got in life, or what job you got, sometimes you get locked down, and it's always gonna be crazy. But you gotta get that balance, right. And the courageous ones will be very creative the whole time and pull a lot of my amazing things off on the footy field or in business. It's it's no different labs, what industry you're in. But a lot of time, I didn't want to just do the shutdown slide. It's like, yes, like, having a cheater, you know, in a backyard. Chasing the rabbits around.

Daniel Franco: 36:07

Yeah, you need to open them into the pilot. You need five

Gavin Wanganeen: 36:11

that they need 10 ks chase that chase things down to? It's in the instinct. Yeah, that's for me. I was looking back on I would have loved to have Yeah, played and what more midfield but I'm not. I'm not regret.

Daniel Franco: 36:24

Did you speak up though? Did you?

Gavin Wanganeen: 36:25

I probably didn't know. I probably did. That's the thing. That's one thing I didn't I probably wasn't bullish enough about Yeah. And that's, that's something that I don't regret it is. I don't regret it, either. But looking back, if I had my time again, if I'm it's always the case. If I knew back then what I know. Yeah. Correct. That's that's always the case. Yeah, but

Daniel Franco: 36:46

because you would have thought, from an outsider peeking, no peeking through, I would have thought Gavin would have been there saying, I can get me in the midfield. But what, but almost demanding where you played in the sense, but you were just doing the same thing.

Gavin Wanganeen: 37:01

I've probably done the same thing. And it was important for our team that we had, you know, someone or some more than just one or a lot of time it was someone who can win the ball in your defense, who was always going to better win that 5050 and get it out of there and do a job. It just, it's like an ace up your sleeve that you just you know, you just keep paying the ice back down. Yeah. In the middle. It's just one of those situations. It's, you know, yes. How was man anyway? I'll cherish that one year. Yeah. The sixth thing that

Daniel Franco: 37:35

I had. So lessons learned from this would be speak up if you want something right. Oh, we got

Gavin Wanganeen: 37:40

a bit of back it up. Yeah. If you want to speak up, that's the thing. I could back it up. Yeah, but I didn't use that. So but that's just one of those things. I don't regret it. But if I had my time again, I probably would have said, but yeah, I'm playing in the middle here. Yeah. I'll show you why.

Daniel Franco: 37:57

So I'm gonna jump into we're gonna have a little bit of fun with here. And I generally do I do a lot of research on before podcasts. And there's so many articles, so many interviews, so many vo highlights with you, right? So. And there's only and always try to find something that you know, you probably haven't spoken about before. So I thought I'll skip all the I'll skip all the interviews and YouTube searches and whatever it is. And I'll go some I'll go to some of the old some of your old football mates that used to play with at the power in the early days. So is it gone, and I'm hitting what we did, there is time under the bus, but I'm gonna. So Shaun Burgoyne told me a couple of stories. And I wanted to. So I wanted to, I wanted to just say I want to set a scene in pre season one year, you guys used to ride up to Norton Summit. Right? It was part of your Do you remember getting on the bikes and riding up to

Gavin Wanganeen: 39:01

come from this one? Exactly what I want to let you say, I know what it is. And it was me,

Daniel Franco: 39:14

let me let me jump in. So if anyone who lives in Adelaide if you're right up to the Norton Summit, it's a it's quite a tough ride. It's a big statement. You're gonna have been shepherds who are shepherds, you Yeah. So yeah. So you you hit a fork in the road. And then there's a track that goes left and then there's a track that goes right. Is that correct? And there's on the left, there's a really I think it was pretty I think it was no, it was no summit. Yeah, it was not. And so you can hear we actually got the map out in a compass. Anyway, so on the left, is this really steep? It's shorter distance, but it's much steeper and on the right it's a longer it's much longer but a lot more. A lot more. All right, so apparently the team used to always go to the left right up the steep hill, because I thought it's shorter, it's much less time we'll just go through a bit of the pain and get through it. Apparently, Gavin always used to go to the right, the longer distance, the more flatter it was, but you're always up the top. And so is there any truth? And Shawn wanted me to ask this? Is there any truth in the rumor that you had a mate there waiting for you? Chuck, where you would check your block in and get him to drive you up to the top? Is there any truth in that room?

Gavin Wanganeen: 40:36

Yeah. Wasn't every time brilliant? Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 40:44

Is there a reason you just didn't want to do it can be born couldn't be

Gavin Wanganeen: 40:47

my boss was riding up the hill and I you know, the shaving the blisters. On get my mind he bring up the trailer, put the bike in and

Daniel Franco: 40:59

you're not gonna, you're not gonna hear the end of that. So that's one or I've got a few, a few here. So the the second one was back in the days when the Nokia 5110s. Were about to remember the Nokia phones. They have the little antennas on top. Yep. So Sean said to me, he reckons you had sort of this bit of fear about cancer at the time and the some of the radio raves he, he said that Gavin used to believe that when you're on the phone, the radio waves would travel through your head and then into the famous Jim Sherman's. Yeah, more technical.

Gavin Wanganeen: 41:34

They can correct him. You can fry your brain, Jay, go for it.

Daniel Franco: 41:38

So what I'm led to believe is that you put tinfoil on the antenna so and then and then complain that you didn't get any reception When? When you when you fight? Is there any truth to that rumor?

Gavin Wanganeen: 41:52

That might have a shadow? Right? I don't remember. I'm not saying either way. But I think

Daniel Franco: 41:58

a there was this little moment he said that used to put tinfoil on on the antennas, so you wouldn't get

Gavin Wanganeen: 42:05

ahead of the time.

Daniel Franco: 42:07

Zone now. Absolutely. Well done. And the last one that he brought up, which which we had a bit of a laugh about was we think it was after you injured your ankle?

Gavin Wanganeen: 42:19

When is this preseason running? Yeah, preseason.

Daniel Franco: 42:22

The 2.2 time trial, the run that we did every single year, every single year, he reckons there was one year, you can plan any bet yanks, if I do this 2.2 2.2 Kilometer Time Trial, my ankles gonna blow up. And I can't remember the name of the coach. But one of the coaches at the time said, Well, if you're not going to do the 2.2 time trial, and you can have to do 10 minutes of Fartlek training to which you agreed. And Shawn would say in Gavin's logic, he would agree to the 10 Minute thing, but yet the 2.2 time shot, and it took eight minutes. So in fact, you're actually doing two minutes more exercise. Is there any truth to that?

Gavin Wanganeen: 42:59

There's big truth. So what happened was, you had an old ankle injury, when I came over from Essen that I had with me, and it needed to be managed and looked after. And they do that 2.2 time trial on the hard surface, right at the

Daniel Franco: 43:14

surface. Right.

Gavin Wanganeen: 43:15

So you know, if you're pounding on a on a joint, yeah, you know, running at a pretty good pace for 2.2 trying guys, you're going to get issued. So anyway, I did it once. Yeah, I did a once in a blue up the next day. And then when it can, and we used to do that probably, you know, two or three times to take improve your time. Yeah. And the next time I came, and we will want to do it and I said I'm not doing it. Okay, what I'm not doing it. I'll run on the grass. I'll do whatever on the grass, but I'm not running on hard surfaces ever again. So don't ask me again. Yeah, no worries, guys. Yep. Okay, cool. So I just when they did the timeframe on the outside, I did some Yeah, I did some falling on the grass. Might have been a bit longer but it's partly so yes. You jog your walk so there's less panning? Yeah, correct. I know exactly what Yeah, we didn't stir up. Anyway. So every time I'd rock up on the inside the running along on the on the grass now doesn't have to be in a stress and stress in our honor on a personal basis every time looking over at me all the lucky.

Daniel Franco: 44:25

So you, you came in in front in the end, what was the shipping seal? One that you're gonna talk about? Can you bring that up?

Gavin Wanganeen: 44:32

Yeah, well, I could. Well, it's a bit of a funny story though. Shane bond. Who's heard the power? Yeah, we're riding up shepherds Hill Road. Yeah. Up the hill, and we'd come from Port Adelaide out of harbor. Yeah. All the way up to Flinders. Yeah. Was that 10k or something? Yeah. And then where to get the shipper to and I was pretty narrow. He'll right. And so anyway, Shane caught me as we got up starting up the hill because the hill I was hurting. And I was just cruising. And so he went past me. Then he went past. This old lady shouldn't invest 6869 And she wasn't a mountain bike or a racing bike. It was one of those old lady bikes had like a little basket. And it was, you know, handlebars out here, you know? Like some of those old lady. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so Shane powers this old lady. Yeah. And he kept going up. And then I had a bit of caught up to this old lady just caught up. And then I had a bit of a chain problem. So I did pull over on the side. So I actually, I'm sorry, I overtook the lady, right and started getting close to Shane didn't, but he was probably on a five, six meters ahead and was behind it. And then I had a chain problem, put over fix the chain. And by that time, the old lady over to me. Anyway, she end up beating me at the top of the hill. Right, because I had a chain problem and chains up on top of your wife. And he's looking for you looking down there. And if you see this old lady coming, and he's thinking, what else you lazy bastard give you let that old lady 70 year old beat you came to find that story. They an old 70 year old lady beat me up.

Daniel Franco: 46:13

Is it is it was a different chain.

Gavin Wanganeen: 46:19

But she didn't beat me. And she beat me because my chain. And it came off and it kept coming. It's a story of sticking to his job. But he's but he put that big twist on it anyway. Very good.

Daniel Franco: 46:31

Look, if there was, we also talked about some good as well. So Shawn did bring up he said, I asked him the question, What was one thing about Gavin, that made him you know, a great the great player that he was, and he just said it was, if there's one thing then he could pick on or pick up on, it was your ability to read the play? Right? It was your ability to be in the right position at the right time, and be able to just really understand and strategically understand where the ball was moving. Before anyone else did that I've always sort of taken that the the reading of the play as, as a way of life, right? If you have the ability to read the play, not only in sport, but in life and strategically look a few steps ahead. It, you know, had some real value, given your success. Do you think that's something that you've learnt to read the play? Or were you just naturally given that ability to really understand where you need it to be?

Gavin Wanganeen: 47:29

I think you learn to read the play. Yeah. I think it's a little bit it's instinctive a lot of it, but I think it's just patents. Yeah. And stuff that you study in watching games. And the more you do it, the better you get at it. And yeah, I've I've read the play quickly, faster than did you

Daniel Franco: 47:44

spend a lot of time honing in on that skill in your career, it just

Gavin Wanganeen: 47:49

by playing, the more you play experience, and you surely tap into, you know, other players are reading it too. But you got to read it a fraction faster. Yeah. And by doing a lot, you get better at it. Yeah. And yeah, so I think yeah, he's spot on a spot on there. I've got the spots, because I knew where it was going. I could read it and feel it. And it's percentages as well, in a way. I mean, if you want to need to, if you're good at cramming the footy? Well, I think 80% the time the the crime is going to come to the front or slightly to the side. That's 90% or 8090 something people. And then that's a tiny thing. You can't get there too early. Because it could get fall over. Yeah. Yeah. Or too close. The Crown could go over your head. Yeah. So it's about the timing and the distance as well. So you just got to be good at it, you know? But yeah, he's probably right. Yeah. Was a good reader,

Daniel Franco: 48:41

during that told you in good stead of your life, your ability to like, just through business career, you got a few entrepreneurship opportunities coming along, or they

Gavin Wanganeen: 48:49

may be a little bit different. Yes. different kettle of fish, man. Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 48:52

the real world, you

Gavin Wanganeen: 48:52

know? Yeah, I'll find that. I'm just saying you're finding your own. I'm just getting started with, you're probably gonna learn reading the play in lots of different areas. Yeah, going forward.

Daniel Franco: 49:04

The one thing that we did speak about last time, and I just wanted to touch on it really quickly. So thought was powerful when we spoke about so 1995 in the Anzac Day game, Michael long stood up to a player won't mention any names. And it was he stood up for the basis of racial abuse on the oval at that time. Now, you said that Michael was along was like a mentor to you. How powerful was that moment to you in your career? Yeah, it

Gavin Wanganeen: 49:33

was. It was amazing. Because, you know, Michael took me under his wing or listening or watching play for us, as a youngster at the MCG and to have him there support me as a young Indigenous kid, you know, coming over from Adelaide. And then to see him, you know, stand up because a lot of indigenous players and a lot of people from you know, from different races, you know, especially, you know, indigenous boys were copying racism You know, these names the whole time. And for me, I actually got called names at the MCG on two occasions. For me being a light skinned Aboriginal person. I never really got it as a kid, because a lot of it now is Aboriginal. And I'd gone to bat for my cousins who, who racially abused the whole time and called names. I'd be protecting them and all of a sudden, you know, I got called your sound so at the MCG but opposition players? Yeah. You know, so that really shocked me to see that was happening that I wasn't surprised, I guess because it was happening. And then Michael Longo obviously, would have been covering it for quite a few years, you know, earlier, he stood up and said, Enough is enough. So he he went, you know, went to the media and went to the NFL and said, This needs to stop. This is what happened. I'm not putting up with it. And you know, it forced the NFL to come up with you know, the racial vilification code, which is a rule that's been around now for many years and, and racism on the football field in the NFL, you know, towards any race or religion was created and started because of Michael Long, right, Michael Long, who's been a pioneer and then obviously, Nicky Remar with the stuff that Michael actually was the one who went to the iPhone and created that wonderful change, we just got to deal with it now in the in the stand, you're going to get a ruling. Yeah, and for people now cuz you know, the odd person. It's a minority of people, but that minority can stand out and people can jump on the back of that and just something that we as a nation are still building towards trying to stamp it out. But least there fell on the football field, it's pretty much gone. Yeah. Which is what's amazing.

Daniel Franco: 51:43

What was it like, in the weeks after, you know, Michael, come out? Was it? Did you notice some change straightaway? Or what did you did you notice any trends? Did you notice any trends change from the pliers from that point on? Or was it a longer term thing?

Gavin Wanganeen: 52:03

Now you can sense that this is not gonna be tolerated? Yeah, this is a big thing. Yeah, you can sensor year wide across the NFL, that's in the NFL did a great job, amazing job to create that, that rule that the racial vilification rule, which a lot of players benefit from now from all races, absolutely, that no one could be, was just not good enough. It's just not good enough as people it's this day and age. It's not it's not shouldn't be accepted. You know, it's lucky enough in the football field, but out in the community when it does happen. I think it's everyone's responsibility to, to jump on board and yeah, call it out to the best way they can without you know, creating any more issues. You know, there's, there's a way to do it. But, you know, everyone if we're very solid in you know, looking after that, I think will go a long way.

Daniel Franco: 52:58

So, Michael, you said was your mentor almost when you came into the role did you pay that forward in the sense that when you went to port or, or this winner, any other the other young genius came through? You almost took them under your wing and did the same thing?

Gavin Wanganeen: 53:16

Yeah. Well, you know, Peter Bergen was a young fella. Yeah, he was 718 coming in. Yeah, that's when my wing a bit. Yeah. Urging the plays brand of footy. The exciting brother. Yeah. The whole back. Yeah, you take them on? Yeah, it just comes naturally, then. You know, cuz you're related to the burger. Yeah. Families from aside from the ERISA GOOGA GOOGA. Yeah, on the west coast of Australia. I've got no longer here at Jimmy as well. And then, you know, even other younger players, I mean, like go like bone Lockwood. I mean, yeah, probably remember, I do remember from Victoria, he was at all it was gonna be touted as the next big thing. Unfortunately, hurting bad injuries. So you know, Courage him and other younger players who had the talent out. Don't be scared to show your flair and take them on. You know, get out there. Get the 40 you tattooed on your arm, you just take them on? Doesn't matter if you get caught from time to time. Yeah. Just be who you are.

Daniel Franco: 54:11

make those mistakes and learn from it. Yep. Brilliant. So your son's an up and coming football star. And I just I mean, I'm curious in this because you are a mentor to so many tech people under your wing and obviously your son now has the potential to be drafted and he's moving up that up that stream. First of all, I guess this is questions coming more from young giving advice to the young people coming through what is some of that advice that you're giving to your son, as he's working his way up there? Yeah,

Gavin Wanganeen: 54:44

yeah, unfortunately for texts who turn that into shame. That was his draft year so he went to Melbourne to border Xavi college last year didn't play any footy whatsoever. So that was a big year of development for him and his junior days. He played some really good footy But then he sort of Yeah, was keen to get over to Melbourne and start training hard and getting stuck into it, and then couldn't play. And then the following year, which was this year, he had a small stress fracture in his foot, yeah, that he missed six months of the beginning of this year. And he came back and he played two games. One was a practice game. And the second one was a school grand final between Xavier and scotch. And he played well gotten the best players in his first game in two years, but then COVID Hit the following week, so the recruiters didn't get a chance to see him. Develop, say over it, he needed that next six, seven weeks, and I think there was six or seven games left that he needed all those games, to say, for recruiters to see that he could improve and show what he's got. They didn't get a chance to do that. So unfortunately, you know, he didn't get nominated for either Porter Essen, and that he's got an opportunity to train with this and and over the summer to to get rookie listed. So that's what he's fighting for at the moment. He starts next Monday.

Daniel Franco: 56:05

Is there any? Is there any reason in why the strategy to move in to Melbourne as opposed to stay here? And

Gavin Wanganeen: 56:13

yeah, well, he was. My first preference was for him to stay here to board at one of the schools here, which he was already at, but an opportunity came a scholarship. Okay, came up. Yeah. So I couldn't, I couldn't match is one of the top schools in Australia. And it was a full boarding Scholarship, which I felt would be good for his development, to be away from home to be independent and to grow. And he's had a ball networks over there. But he's an aspiring football, he's hungry. So yeah, I look forward to seeing how he goes over the summer. And I just encourage him to be a hard worker and to be really technical on your gym work. And all the all the technique when it comes to playing footy or gym, get your technique, right. And just be really fussy with all your technique and eating and everything that will help you to build good foundations. And have fun, have fun and be hungry, be very hungry and don't like get beaten. Yeah. He knows that. And I'm high. So yeah, good luck to you. And I look forward to seeing you guys over the summer. If he doesn't get picked up over the summer, and but a bigger chance because he's, he's still growing and developing. Yeah, he'll just pay the NAB next year. Because he's missed two years of 40. So yeah, he's two years behind the current draft. It's unfortunate two years behind. So he only needs to get a year in the in the NAB league next year and play really well. And you'll get drafted next year. So don't don't stress sunlight might be good to get you under. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And build for next year's draft and have fun in the nap League.

Daniel Franco: 57:50

Yeah. Well, good luck to him. Yeah. Just looking back at your careers or anything other than not speaking up at the play? Is there anything that you wouldn't have done? Or you'd like to revisit? And do you know what?

Gavin Wanganeen: 58:04

No, I've got no regrets. Yeah. And I'm lucky Yeah, from that respect, to have a successful career, and, but you have to work hard for it. I mean, you got to work out in your injuries, your mindset, when you've got the injuries to come back to do the rehab. They're a form, if there's form issues, you're going to nip them in the bud, because you don't want media talking about you. And you're expected as a high profile player to be playing well. So you know, it's there's pressure there. But I guess, something to deal with in life. And not allow the pressure to get to you as well. I mean, but what actually drove me was the fear of failure to be honest with you. Yeah. Yeah. I was scared to fail. That's what drove me.

Daniel Franco: 58:47

Fail as in well not just not be known or not, not not

Gavin Wanganeen: 58:54

just no play. Well, yeah. Not the wind permission not to play well. If I didn't want to have two bad games in a row that my issue was my one of my mottos was, if you had a quiet week, one week, you're killing the next week. Yeah. Never Too bad games around. Yeah, never. That was my motto.

Daniel Franco: 59:11

Did you Did that cause a sense of anxiety then?

Gavin Wanganeen: 59:15

I think there was, but it was or it was level? Yes. It was always. Yeah, there was a little bit of anxiety there because he had to refocus and draw from deep and concentrate. And that was a lot of mental energy. Yeah, so you're exhausted after games. And

Daniel Franco: 59:30

did you ever read the papers or anything? Yeah, you're right. Yeah. Yeah, cuz there's some pliers just sad. I don't read it. Yeah, it comes from the papers and this Well, I didn't

Gavin Wanganeen: 59:39

mind reading because a lot of good things.

Daniel Franco: 59:42

What are your photos? What was the light coming out into into the real world after your career? Yeah, hang up the boots and moved on. What? How did you handle that transition?

Gavin Wanganeen: 59:56

The transition was really tough and it still is in a way because of Did fully, you know, since I just five and was a professional for you know, 1617 years, so to be in that bubble and to be in that environment, you wish you could do it forever. It's it's just a different buzz to play in front of, you know, 50 7080 100,000 people when I was playing with this and yeah, in the Anzac Day games, the adrenaline, you'll never ever get that ever again. And that's something that I miss and the camaraderie playing in that group, but also being able to bet competitive juices that I have on the football field, I miss being competitive and physical and missing, you know, mixing it with other good players to release a beat him, love beating him. He never ever get that back. And that's something that's a hole that will be there forever. And then so you transition out the real world where you're trying to focus on business, or you work for someone and you got to keep earning money, because you got a family. Yeah. And I'm dabbling in a few different businesses, like you mentioned. I'm sure you mentioned a sec. So yeah, it can play. Play in your mind a bit. It's known that when I was financial, long term sporting person, or maybe a long term person who's been in a career for 25 years, that's all they know, and they're gonna try something new. Same thing. Yeah. You're just sort of institutionalizing something else. And that's, that's tough. And that's something I always deal with. And so I craved to be successful at other things, and I'm driving.

Daniel Franco: 1:01:26

Is there any reason why you didn't hang around the football world is in going to coaching or just wasn't your thing? 70 hour

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:01:32

weeks? Yeah. And weekends? Yeah. Intense. Yeah. I just want to relax, and I just want to watch the football. Enjoy it. So you had your time. And now yeah, I'm happy. Just watch it as a fan now on the weekends. But I don't wanna be around doing long hours. And just traveling again. Yeah. Yeah. Outside. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:01:56

Is that how you got into the art? Was that one of the whys of your religion? Yeah,

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:02:00

exactly. The art has been unbelievable. For me, it's given me an opportunity. And I just started with a competition between the indigenous boys back at port and like we said, let's see, you can do the best painting out of us indigenous boys, and we'll get the rest of the team to pick the best panning. Great, and we're doing one of the boys pick the best artists that have awesome digital. So I went away and took it seriously and started it. Yeah, I didn't finish it there. And this is my last year of footy. And I think the other boys even started by saying, like Peter Berg line was Shaunda. Yes, Sean was there and I don't think they started. But I started it and rolled up and put it away. 10 years later, my wife Pippa found this unfinished canvas. And she said, Can you Oh, who did this? I said, Yeah, I did it. Oh, that's pretty cool. Can you finish it? So I finished it, and sort of just grew from there. And I got a little bit of a taste for it. And then I created my own style. But it's been good because it spiritually connected me with my originality. Yeah, and learn more about, ya know, my mob. And when I paint, it's a, I see it as a view from above, looking down through, and our pen about the night sky and the stars and stuff in the dreaming, and you start dreaming. But it's a view down to my mom's country, which is the West Coast always. And I'm a professional artist now who would have thought, you know, from a professional footballer, into a professional art career. It's been so good, because it's filled a hole to a certain respect. And it's given me a purpose and something to do that I enjoy doing. And it gives me that sense of fulfillment. So I'm blessed to have had that without the art. Yeah, it probably would be in a bit more of a different sort of mindset, or Yeah, more of a negative, it's almost meditation. Yeah, experience, it's sort of held me and kept me with a purpose. If you don't have a purpose. Yeah, you can get lost. And then bad habits can start and you start thinking negatively, you know, more negative, and when we know how bad negative thoughts, you know, I think we all have them, I have them. And I still from time to time, but I think my arts helped me and I've learned to push negative thoughts aside, if they come in, don't dwell on the negative, you push them out. I push them out straightaway. So I want to focus on positive stuff. That's yeah. So it's been great for me.

Daniel Franco: 1:04:17

Did you have to go through the experience of learning all the different types of

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:04:22

sales? But I read books, and I looked at paintings. Yeah, but I created my own style. Okay. 12 organic style. Yeah, that's been the key. style.

Daniel Franco: 1:04:33

And then then you know, your mum's land so well. So you've just kind of adapted that into it

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:04:38

yet? Yeah. For sort of contemporary edge.

Daniel Franco: 1:04:42

All of your things. I'm trying to see if we can get one hung up in the climate on text mean, the office will say Oh, yeah. Is there with the with the entrepreneurship you've obviously looking at so the art is one And it's doing really well. And I think actually last time we spoke, you said you can't even take any more orders that. Yeah, you've got going on.

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:05:07

I can take orders. There's a bit of a waiting list. Probably a week, three month waiting list. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's I've got about seven Commission's. So I'm going to be a busy summer. Yeah. chip away over the summer. And yeah, combined.

Daniel Franco: 1:05:20

Is there an element is there is a potential for doing too much that you're going to lose the passion of it?

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:05:27

No, because when I finish every painting, right, the end is getting to the end. And I get it. And I look at it. I'll get above Yeah, I still get that warm, fuzzy feeling. Yeah, look at the planning. Another Yes.

Daniel Franco: 1:05:39

You've made something there.

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:05:40

So I don't ever lose the bus. Ever. I mean, never say never. But well, yeah. I've been planning for about five years now. And you know, probably doing about 50 paintings. 30 To 40 paintings a year. Yeah. Well, which is not a lot, by the way. No, it's so but because, you know, a week to two weeks. Yeah, it takes a long time. Yeah. Just get that boss when it's finished. Maybe it's the sense of accomplishment. I don't know what it is. It's just that spiritual. I don't know. It's I it's really hard to explain. But the buzz is still there. Yeah. I think always be

Daniel Franco: 1:06:19

there when a magazine Good going. Yeah, but I mean,

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:06:25

my family. Exactly. It's just a bonus. That's the button, we get eight. But the I'd keep doing I'd have if I wasn't getting paid a single cent red cent or $1 for the paintings. I'd have them on my wall at home. I love them so much. And they make the house look so good.

Daniel Franco: 1:06:41

Yeah. Beautiful. So you're now in the throes of sort of the next steps of your career. And you know, there's got a few things going on. recruitment company, your, you know, full stream recruitment companies. Why are so poorly Vandenberg posting?

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:07:00

positions? I've won. Yeah. In that entrepreneur. Narrow phase. Yeah. You know, I don't want to just do it whilst he's full time. Yeah. But I squeeze hours in on the weekends. Like I'd get up early on a Saturday or Sunday and put two or three hours in, yeah, in a couple hours at night. So a lot of pain on the weekend. dribs and drabs during the week. Yeah, yeah, I just had a conversation with a friend of mine who has been in recruitment for many years. And we've been chatting on and off about, you know, recruitment and goes, Gavin, he said to me once again, you know, in the corporate space, there's hardly any representation in white collar roles for indigenous people. Yeah. I said, come to think on our Yeah, I know, if you want to do something about it. I said, Yes. You should create your own recruitment company. Yeah. And with the narrative to change. That narrative, guys to not having enough Aboriginal people in corporate roles. Yeah. I said, Let's do it.

Daniel Franco: 1:08:04

But it's grown from there. You've gone mainstream. Yeah.

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:08:06

Yeah. So that's our overall key pillar. Yeah. Our purpose. Yeah. And that will be driving us. Absolutely. But we're a mainstream recruitment company. So Mara partners yet, you know, we're recruitment, white collar recruitment, corporate search firm, and brilliant. We had the ability to recruit for any company for any role, white collar role, corporate role that were mainstream. So we're not like, only recruiting indigenous people in the corporate world. Yeah. Because at the moment, we don't have enough of our mob. Yeah, really, we got some really up and comers who we want to nurture. Yeah. And get them ready to go into these sorts of roles, but we don't want to put them in roles when they're not ready. And set them up for failure. That's the worst thing. It's like one step forward. 10 steps back. Yeah. So this is a long term approach, because it's been like this for so long. So that's something I'm really passionate about, as well to change that narrative and, and be a successful recruitment company, you know, a mainstream recruitment.

Daniel Franco: 1:09:06

Is there. We spoke about it, I'm not 100% sure if this is in place yet. So it's an off the cuff question. Is there a niche that you have in regards to every single person that you do recruit for

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:09:18

you? Okay, so indefinitely. So when we are recruiting, you know, roles, you know, mainstream roles for anyone? Yeah. We want to make sure that when we put up candidates, they'll go into a position culturally aware, great, and we'll put them through some cultural training, perfect, to make sure that their company, you know, won't be at risk of, you know, someone saying the wrong thing and understanding culture, you know, and that goes, not just indigenous culture, it's all cultures, but being respectful. And also, you know, respecting women, for instance, you know, and all these other equality Yes, that we need to make sure people were having them before we handle them on to a company,

Daniel Franco: 1:10:06

I do believe that your success in sport contributes to your success in both your art and business. Do is in like your mindset that

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:10:19

that accounting, so I think you get that drive that you want to be successful in football and and you want it to continue in other areas of your life. And now I'm starting to, you know, put that in the place, it'll take me a little while. I mean, I'm in my mid 40s now, so I finished, you know, 4834. So it's taken me 10 years to really fight. So it just goes to show you, it can take you a little bit of growth in the growth time to be ready to start creating opportunities that are going to be sustainable, just jumping into something you're not ready for.

Daniel Franco: 1:10:59

Well, it sounds like you've got a really amazing strategy with Mayra partners and what you guys are doing there? You're

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:11:05

Yeah, I'm really excited for that. Because, you know, I'll plug in and work closely with another recruitment company called a GM. And they're very successful, you know, really successful recruitment company and work side by side with them on a lot of projects or sorry. So, yeah, I think it's partnerships really important as well. And working together as a team, because you can't do it all on your own. If you want to do a great job, you got to have the right team, where people pay the right route, they roll. Absolutely. And that's true success will come I think

Daniel Franco: 1:11:37

I am conscious of your time. So one last question before we deep dive into our quickfire questions. So this is a question that I kind of ponder and I speak to it a lot within the podcast is, how do we I'm just getting to get your intake on this. How do we pursue our visions and realize our visions of where we want to be is both in humans as a human and in sport or in business or whatever it might be, whilst at the same time trying to maintain our family relationships and the balance and the balance? Yeah.

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:12:15

Yeah, that's that's a really good question. I think that's a question that a lot of people have to think about. Hmm, quite regularly, before it can sort of get out of hand. I mean, yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:12:28

Well, I mean, like, the question comes from, you're doing so much, and you've got six kids. Yeah. And you're managing a lot in your life and coming from a career of a high profile position and all the above? Yeah.

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:12:42

I think I spoke just previously about the team. Yeah, you put a team in place. Yeah, that plays their role. Yeah. And I have my role to play, but I don't my role to be overwhelmingly time consuming. That's gonna take away from my family time. I think the most important thing is your time, you can never ever get your time back. Yeah, ever. Thus, the one thing that we can control is our time and then you have to weigh up, I think, is your time. How precious your time is money more important to you than your time because you got to get a balance because if it is, cuz money is not gonna make you happy. Time is gonna what's gonna make you happy? Yeah. And the relationships in your life with your close family, your extended family, your friends, close friends, extended friends, and balancing what relationships are important to you and where you spend your time is the key. Because that's what's gonna make you happy. Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:13:42

I agree. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Do you place more emphasis on one or the other? Do you say actually I'll family will always come first or do you do try to find that balance? And do both

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:13:56

our families or families always first I think you can find the right balance where your family comes first. And you always get the balance right yeah, that family was a come first yet that balance so grand scheme what upset me like my wife and I most mornings we get a coffee together. Oh, great. But it does come back down to Yeah, I guess you know, you're the type of job that you're in as well whether you can actually work different hours and what the roles are. I mean, I can I'm flexible my hours your work. But for some people, I guess I can understand that. It's the roles are time consuming, but is that really sustainable long term? Like

Daniel Franco: 1:14:36

no, it's not it's I don't reckon I don't believe it.

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:14:40

I don't think it is because it's gonna affect relationships. And yeah, it's, it's, you hear a lot of stories sadly, where people just you know, a committed to their work and they lose so many other things in the meantime, like friends family, and I've seen it before relationships with your family and friends are all important. But yeah, balance is the key in finding that right balance.

Daniel Franco: 1:15:06

Excellent. Thank you for that. So is a deep question. The quickfire questions now to round off the podcast. We are B grade is here, big learners and it doesn't necessarily need to be a book. But what is something that you're reading or learning from right now?

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:15:23

You hit me on the spot. And this question was a comment. Do you want to say to you don't ask. You don't have the right. To be honest, because I'm honest sort of guy. Yeah, just keep it real. Yeah. Okay. Um, I wouldn't, I wouldn't expect any no reading anything particularly. That's good. But the paper and articles and juries and you know, sports and yeah, in the paper, I'd like to have a bit of a read. Yeah. But you said you're getting into audio books as well. recently. My wife encouraged me into the audio books, but I think that's up my alley. And that's what I'm gonna be having a crack at. Sama definitely.

Daniel Franco: 1:15:57

I'm an audio book freak. I any opportunity. I get I got the headphones in these listening to some I'm

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:16:03

gonna I'm gonna get into it. Yeah, yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:16:05

Beautiful. Is there what's what? Oh, sorry. What's one lesson? That's taking you the longest to learn?

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:16:18

Washes? Yeah. I'll be cleaning up. more consistently? Yes. Definitely. When we get a you know, for girls at home young girls. Yeah. And you know, she's pull your weight. Pull my weight at home. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm trying I am. And I think and I think it should be 5050. Yeah. Hi, I'm a big believer, and I just need to practice what I believe.

Daniel Franco: 1:16:40

It's a struggle. And I'm trying, it's more about priorities. Right. I think I have this argument with my with my wife all the time as well. The cleaning for me isn't a priority. It's spending time with the children to be more of a variety. That's my excuse anyway.

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:16:57

I need to put a bit of system in place so I'm more consistent in that system, which will help help my beautiful wife at home because she does so much.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:05

Very good. If you could have three people over for dinner, who would they be?

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:17:16

Another person would be Michael Jordan. Yes. Sigmobile Bron James because he was the greatest. I'd love to hear that conversation person throw in. And the third one from Dennis Rodman. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Cuz he a lot of these stories. Yeah. He has some pretty wicked stories.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:39

If you want to, if you want an audio book to start off with, yeah, get on to that. Okay. We're in for a wild ride. And I

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:17:46

said the bicycles because I'll be watching a basketball lately. Yeah. Michael John. Michael Jordan. Dakari, sir. Yes. Yes. It came to my mind.

Daniel Franco: 1:17:54

The last dance documentary was fantastic. Yeah,

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:17:57

I'm real. I'm a big fan of Roger Federer as well just he's classy. Well, talent,

Daniel Franco: 1:18:03

if you you know, just to the question of how do we balance if there's a there's a human being that reckons got a pretty good he's found a way to spend he travels with his family and he's one of the best in the world. Right. So if you Well, what's what's some of the best advice that you've ever received?

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:18:30

As a good question. Yeah. I'm not one for for holding on to specific, you know, quotes or saying goodbye, you know, I just think

Daniel Franco: 1:18:40

head down, bum up.

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:18:42

It's always hard work. I think I've learned myself or watched others use the override writing theme is about being particular with, you know, in sport, the way you train and being fussy with your technique. So I think that's vital. Whether it be in the gym I said before, on the training track or running technique, like weightlifting technique, you know, lunging all that is as vital and building your muscles to make them strong, so you can run all the K's. So it's the technical side, but then always have flair. Be creative. And don't hold back. Don't be scared to be creative on the football field. So

Daniel Franco: 1:19:26

there they are in life. It doesn't need to just be

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:19:29

and in life, so true. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, be creative. Yeah. And don't ever hold back. And don't ever die wondering. Yeah,

Daniel Franco: 1:19:37

have a crack. It's amazing. Because you have taken it you look at the art is a poor member

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:19:41

crack. Yeah. And being creative, creative. You know, the coffee. Cracker.

Daniel Franco: 1:19:45

Yeah, well, that's coffee.

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:19:47

So I'm having a crack. I'm being trying to be creative. You don't are wondering

Daniel Franco: 1:19:52

if you had access to a time machine, where would you go? To go forward or back?

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:20:00

Oh, that's a tough question. I really want to know what's food I probably don't really want to know. I do. I feel like just, you know, be climate change and all that sort of worries me bit. But others may be negative now, isn't it? Well, it

Daniel Franco: 1:20:15

depends on what's been real. Have you ever watched Back to the Future? Yes. Where he goes to the future and he gets the almanac. If you're a betting man, you get the I'm and I bring it back. Well, you can figure out what's going on. And then bring it back and bring those ideas and

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:20:33

that's what we're thinking. I don't know right now. I can't answer that one. Yes, thing? I don't know. I'd love to go back early days. And, you know, in a lot of food, I don't know. Yeah.

Daniel Franco: 1:20:47

No worries. If you had one superhero power. What would you choose?

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:20:55

To be able to fly? Yeah. It'd be pretty cool. Better fly. Or you said one of them was invisible.

Daniel Franco: 1:21:02

Yeah. Visibility can be a bit creepy, though.

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:21:06

Well, true. Yes, you can just fly over to the European show or flight and fly fast. Just

Daniel Franco: 1:21:19

Well, when you bring when you bring it back to your bird's eye view that you do with your painting, right. You've seen the flying would give you grapes. Great. Yeah, view. Me Amazing. That you're a dad of six kids. Do you have a dad joke? Anyone that comes to mind?

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:21:38

dad jokes? No big joke. Like I like hearing good joke. I don't ever remember the joke i could never remember. Ever been a remember your jokes, but I love hearing him. Yeah, but with the kids. I like sort of scaring them.

Daniel Franco: 1:21:56

Yeah.

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:21:59

Yeah. And then they try and do it to me. And then I've just given this really loud laugh Loki laughing about the loudest dead laugh? Yeah. made love it. Yeah, I'm getting into

Daniel Franco: 1:22:10

that idiot as opposed to a dead joke.

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:22:13

Do something really loud with them then?

Daniel Franco: 1:22:16

Yeah. Brilliant. Look, thank you so much for your time today. It's been amazing having you on hearing your journey, hearing your thoughts about your journey and your leadership. You've obviously done some amazing things and, and it's a testament to all the hard work that you've put in. So appreciate all that you're doing as well with your art and the indigenous world and China, promote that and really get the, you know, the work the corporate world more involved in that space. It's definitely something you should hang your hat

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:22:43

on. Yeah, definitely. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Daniel Franco: 1:22:46

No worries. Thanks, guys. Take it Oh, actually, sorry. Where can we find you? So Mara Mara partners,

Gavin Wanganeen: 1:22:52

EMR partners, just website website and then connect on LinkedIn and follow us on LinkedIn on

Daniel Franco: 1:22:58

LinkedIn. Beautiful, easy, Dan. Thanks, guys. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Or you can check out the show notes if there was anything of interest to you and find out more about us at Synergy iq.com.au. I am going to ask though, if you did like the podcast, it would absolutely mean the world to me if you could subscribe, rate and review. And if you didn't like it, that's alright too. There's no need to do anything. Take care guys. All the best.

Synergy IQ: 1:23:25

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